AFCI on Fireplace?

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monkey

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A master suite has a gas fireplace in the bedroom. It requires a hardwired 15 amp circuit to operate the igniter and a blower fan. Would this dedicated circuit be required to be AFCI protected? The fireplace contains the j box as part of the unit, the circuit has no other outlets.
 
I would say as long as it is hardwired then it does not need to be on an afci.

(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
Branch/feeder AFCIs shall be permitted to be used to meet the requirements of 210.12(B) until January 1, 2008.
Rick
 
RUWired said:
I would say as long as it is hardwired then it does not need to be on an afci.

(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
Branch/feeder AFCIs shall be permitted to be used to meet the requirements of 210.12(B) until January 1, 2008.
Rick
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How is this any different than a hardwired recessed lighting fixture? An outlet does not have to be a receptacle. Unless the fireplace is 240 volts it requires AFCI protection.
 
OK the FP will get an AFCI. My gut feeling was that it would, but I thought I'd hate to waste the dough if I didn't have to.
 
Wasn`t this the same as the thread a little bit ago ,but in that thread it was a fireplace that was between the bathroom and the master bed room??? If not mistaken wasn`t the general consensus that it had to be afci protected since within the confines of the bedroom area but not required to be gfci protected since it was not a receptacle outlet in the bathroom.
Lets not forget the thread in regards to a closet light in a bedroom closet.Did it have to be afci protected,since physically it was within the confines of a closet but not in the actual bedroom.I think that once it was determined that is there was a lighted switch in the bedroom then it would have to be afci protected since at that point power would be utilized.
 
Sorry I missed that thread. As far as the closet lights go, I always just put them on the AFCI, it's easy to do so and I don't want to take a chance. The FP was a little different since it required it's own ckt. Thanks..........Brian
 
For every branch circuit, there is a point up to which you are in the "premises wiring system," and beyond which you are in the "utilization equipment." That point is, by definition, an "outlet." That point does not need to be internal to a 2x4 or 4x4 outlet box.

In this case, that point (i.e., the "outlet") is where the conduit ends, and the j-box associated with the fireplace begins. Or to avoid deflecting the discussion, let me say that the "outlet" is within 6 inches, one way or the other, of this point.

This point, this outlet, may be visible from the interior of the bedroom, or it may be within a wall. Is it "in the bedroom" in either case? That is the crux of this discussion. IMHO it is in the bedroom, in the same sense that the ceiling lighting outlet is located above the ceiling tiles, and is not visible from the interior of the room.

I agree with Trevor on this one. This circuit requires AFCI protection (presuming it is a 120 volt circuit).
 

The quote below is from the 2008 ROP.

My apologies for the run on in it. I'm having a dickens of a time finding where the formating overrides are coming from. The BBS software is messing with me.
2-124 Log #401 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject
(210.12(B))
__________________________________________________
Submitter: David Miklos, Miklos Electric Inc.
Recommendation: Add text to read as follows:
210.12(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms and all 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets supplying equipment installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.
Substantiation: 2005 NEC 210.12(B) Does not require AFCI protection for electric fireplaces that are installed in bedrooms because the outlets are not located in the bedrooms. The outlets are located outside of the finished bedroom walls, accessible only after removing the fireplace. The outlets are located in unfinished areas of the dwelling unit. This ?Dead Space? is not within the bedrooms. Therefore, the outlet is NOT required to be AFCI protected even though the equipment it supplies is located in the bedroom.

Note: Supporting material is available for review at NFPA Headquarters.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The panel intends that the current requirement applies only to branch circuits supplying outlets in bedrooms. The use of the term ?equipment? is too broad in the context of the submitter?s recommendation.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12
Comment on Affirmative:​
BROWN, L.: Please see NAHB?s Ballot Comment on Proposal 2-142, especially the use of dwelling unit fire data to support the expansion of AFCI protection.
KING, D.: The panel action on proposal 2-142 satisfies the submitter?s intent.​
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Sorry about that. I must have editted Post #11 above a dozen times in order to trick it into letting me display what a simple copy and paste should have allowed. ARGH!
 
Now, I take the "Panel Statement" to say that it is only the outlet inside the bedroom that is the CMP's intended target for 210.12(B).

The fireplace that has a jbox recessed inside a wall, that is, the front of the fireplace is part of the bedroom wall surface, is only "in the bedroom" on the bedroom side of the fireplace. The wiring of the fireplace that connects at an outlet to the Premises Wiring (System) is inside the fireplace and is therefore not inside the bedroom.

Therefore, the jbox is not required to be connected to a circuit provided with AFCI protection.
 
I understand, Al, and I really don't have a fundamental objection to that point of view. But let me repeat Trevor's question (see post #3): How is this different from the overhead light? The parts that are visible and accessible from within the bedroom is limited to the globe and the bulb. The "outlet" cannot be seen or maintained, without first removing the fixture. One could argue that AFCI protection is not required for circuits that supply ceiling lights.

I recognize that ceiling lights are usually turned on and off by a wall switch in the same room. You and I have differences of opinion regarding whether that switch is an "outlet." But lets not go there just now.

To avoid sidetracking the key point here, let us conjecture that a small bedroom has a ceiling light that is operated only by pull chain. To make that legal, there must be a wall-switched receptacle in the same room. Let's say they are on different circuits. Does the circuit feeding the ceiling light need to have AFCI?
 
Good question Charlie.

As I understand what you've written, you are describing a surface mounted luminaire that is supplied from a Lighting Outlet. While one may quibble over whether the Outlet, the point at which the Premises Wiring (System) conductors connect to the luminaire fixture wires is inside or outside the "bedroom" wall surface, I take it that the wall surface is broken by the Lighting Outlet openning and that the point of the Outlet is in the room.

That is, a luminaire, surface mounted at a Lighting Outlet, is required to have AFCI protection.

The question Trevor raised in #3, however, is less general, and more interestingly to the point for me.

Trevor is asking about the jbox at a recessed light.

That recessed luminaire jbox is inside the "unfinished area" of the building.

That recessed luminaire jbox is not in the habitable space that is a bedroom.

The photons get into the bedroom, but that's it.

The recessed luminaire jbox containing the Outlet opens only to the unfinished area of the building and therefore does not require AFCI protection of the branch circuit.

Edit in red
 
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