AFCI protection @ 1st device

h1h2h3

Member
Can someone please tell me if I am understanding this correctly?

I cannot seem to find my 2014 NEC as I am in the process of moving. Rewiring a bedroom for a friend. Most of the house is knob and tube but I will be removing it from the bedroom and dead ending it and capping and blanking it off. For all intents and purposes the bedroom will be completely rewired appropriately. They have fuse boxes not breakers but $ is tight and it is not financially an option at this time to upgrade or swap out panels. So, If i were to run a 14-2 MC or Steel AC cable from the fuse box to the first outlet (25' run) and install a metal outlet box at the first receptacle, install an AFCI type receptacle and then run the rest in romex and plastic boxes, is that the acceptable method to date?

Thanks guys. As always I know someone will take the time to answer and for that I am very grateful. :)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Can someone please tell me if I am understanding this correctly?

I cannot seem to find my 2014 NEC as I am in the process of moving. Rewiring a bedroom for a friend. Most of the house is knob and tube but I will be removing it from the bedroom and dead ending it and capping and blanking it off. For all intents and purposes the bedroom will be completely rewired appropriately. They have fuse boxes not breakers but $ is tight and it is not financially an option at this time to upgrade or swap out panels. So, If i were to run a 14-2 MC or Steel AC cable from the fuse box to the first outlet (25' run) and install a metal outlet box at the first receptacle, install an AFCI type receptacle and then run the rest in romex and plastic boxes, is that the acceptable method to date?

Thanks guys. As always I know someone will take the time to answer and for that I am very grateful. :)
I believe you would be OK with what you propose, but may find it easier or about as cost effective to supply a breaker panel, even if just a 4-6 circuit panel for now so you can install AFCI breaker in it. You can probably get that panel for about $20 or so and can move breakers to new panel sometime when you do make that change, plus you can easily add another circuit or two if that comes up before a panel change does.
 

JDB3

Senior Member
I believe that in the 2014 NEC, if the run is 14-2 & 50 feet or less, NM (romex) is permissible, using an AFCI receptacle & marking the first box of the circuit as such.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
I believe that in the 2014 NEC, if the run is 14-2 & 50 feet or less, NM (romex) is permissible, using an AFCI receptacle & marking the first box of the circuit as such.
That, IMHO, would only be allowed if the receptacle AFCI and the branch breaker were combination listed for that application. That has not happened yet....
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Will the sheath of the armored cable be an effective ground path with a fuse box being the start of the grounding system? Don't forget the K&T leaves the fuse box using insulated bushings. Just curious. If you install s small sub panel will you have to update the grounding ? Again, just curious.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
All that said it MUST BE :
OBC AFCI must have ?System Combination? listing with the breaker*

In order to be legit!
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Place an Blank Face AFCI where a GFCI is in this picture. And mark it as required in 210.12(A)(4)(c)

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=AFRBF-I&section=62350&minisite=10251

View attachment 12451
All that said it MUST BE :
OBC AFCI must have ?System Combination? listing with the breaker*

In order to be legit!
You two are talking about two different situations. Mike's home run is inside metal raceway and Sierra's home run is NM-B. Two different Code passages.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Here's the section. IMHO I believe the OP is correct but somehow I think # 5 should have come before # 4 :

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Dwelling Units.

...............or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of
the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6):

(4) A listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter
installed at the first outlet on the branch circuit
in combination with a listed branch-circuit overcurrent
protective device where all of the following
conditions are met:
a. The branch-circuit wiring shall be continuous from
the branch-circuit overcurrent device to the outlet
branch-circuit arc-fault circuit interrupter.

b. The maximum length of the branch-circuit wiring
from the branch-circuit overcurrent device to the
first outlet shall not exceed 15.2 m (50 ft) for a
14 AWG conductor or 21.3 m (70 ft) for a 12 AWG
conductor.

c. The first outlet box in the branch circuit shall be
marked to indicate that it is the first outlet of the
circuit.

d. The combination of the branch-circuit overcurrent
device and outlet branch-circuit AFCI shall be identified
as meeting the requirements for a system
combination?type AFCI and shall be listed as such.

(5) If RMC, IMC, EMT, Type MC, or steel-armored Type
AC cables meeting the requirements of 250.118, metal
wireways, metal auxiliary gutters, and metal outlet and
junction boxes are installed for the portion of the
branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent
device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to install
a listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI at the first outlet
to provide protection for the remaining portion of
the branch circuit.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
I've read, and re-read, and I am still trying to understand the original post.



Where have you looked?!? Where on earth did you move...?
I don't find that hard to believe or understand. My guess is the OP is saying everything is boxed up or not in it's usual place because of the move.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Here's the section. IMHO I believe the OP is correct but somehow I think # 5 should have come before # 4 :

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Dwelling Units.

...............or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of
the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6):

(4) A listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter
installed at the first outlet on the branch circuit
in combination with a listed branch-circuit overcurrent
protective device where all of the following
conditions are met:
a. The branch-circuit wiring shall be continuous from
the branch-circuit overcurrent device to the outlet
branch-circuit arc-fault circuit interrupter.

b. The maximum length of the branch-circuit wiring
from the branch-circuit overcurrent device to the
first outlet shall not exceed 15.2 m (50 ft) for a
14 AWG conductor or 21.3 m (70 ft) for a 12 AWG
conductor.

c. The first outlet box in the branch circuit shall be
marked to indicate that it is the first outlet of the
circuit.

d. The combination of the branch-circuit overcurrent
device and outlet branch-circuit AFCI shall be identified
as meeting the requirements for a system
combination?type AFCI and shall be listed as such.


(5) If RMC, IMC, EMT, Type MC, or steel-armored Type
AC cables meeting the requirements of 250.118, metal
wireways, metal auxiliary gutters, and metal outlet and
junction boxes are installed for the portion of the
branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent
device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to install
a listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI at the first outlet
to provide protection for the remaining portion of
the branch circuit.
Items in (4)(d) need to be identified and listed as mentioned. I have no experience with such devices to know what is typical but keep that in mind.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Items in (4)(d) need to be identified and listed as mentioned. I have no experience with such devices to know what is typical but keep that in mind.
I Agree. Haven't seen one yet but I'm told they're on the market. I think they wrote this section of the Code in anticipation of them being produced.
 

electricalist

Senior Member
So has anyone seen these devices?
If its the arc fault outlet that looks like a gfci then yes. I bought a 15 amp at the orange box store just to have in case i had to add something in a house.
My brother in law does custom houses and told me about the system combination as you mentioned.
 
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