AFCI Protection in Clothes Closets

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

finhead

Senior Member
If an inspector requires the light in a clothes closet to be AFCI protected, reasoning that it is a part of the bedroom, shouldn't he also require receptacle outlet(s) to be installed in the closet as well?
 
just curious

Why would you have a different circuit feeding a closet light in a bedroom and not just use the same bedroom circuit
 
How can an inspector require AFCI protection in the closet? Just because a closet can be entered or accessed from the bed room doesn't make it part of the bedroom. If it has a door it is a seperate space/room.

If a garage can be entered from a kitchen are the garage receptacles required to be on a SA circuit?

Sorry, but I had to voice my opinion :D

Roger
 
Last edited:
Roger

I agree with you. My question resulted from several questions originating at IAEI Chapter meetings and listed on the NEMA website. Some inspectors view the the closet as part of the bedroom, but prior to the AFCI rules I don't think any of these same inspectors required receptacles in the closet.
 
I just replaced the wooden shelving in the Master Bedroom closet with metal shelving. When I took away the old shelves, and looked at the walls behind them, I discovered that there are more receptacles in that closet than there are in the bedroom. Go figure.

But I have to agree with your logic, finhead. If an inspector does not consider a closet to be part of the bedroom, for the purposes of 210.52(A), then the same inspector cannot reasonably say that the closet is part of the bedroom, for the purposes of 210.12(B).
 
Thanks Charlie.

Finhead since we're all agreeing with each other, :) I want to go on record that I cast my vote in favor your logic too.

They can't have one requirement without the other.

Roger
 
This closet light in a bedroom was a long winded thread not to long ago.If my memory serves me well,the issue of it is required to be afci protected was contingent upon the switch being utilized as a point of utilization.The switch if a lighted switch would require the circut to be afci protected but if a standard SPST switch it would not.I believe this issue was never resolved.

To me once you enter a bedroom through the door and unless you enter a bathroom that requires other standards . The closet door still keeps it in the confines of the bedroom......I`m sure I`ll get flack from this statement !!!!
 
First of all , I totally agree a clothes closet is not a bedroom and on occasion I put the closet and master bath lighting together (non afci). , however I think the reason some inspecters are tough on this is because (unlike the garage/kitchen scenario) in some local building codes a closet is what defines a room as a bedroom. I wire alot of house that have a (FROG) finished room over garage. if it has a closet they consider it a bedroom, thus AFCI, if no closet then just call it a rec room.. so its easy for them to say if a closet defines a bedroom, it must be part of a bedroom.... but also a closet in a foyer dosent now make a foyer a bedroom, now we are right back were we started..lol
 
scwirenut said:
but also a closet in a foyer dosent now make a foyer a bedroom, now we are right back were we started..lol
Click to expand...

Yes we are.
icon12.gif


Roger
 
Roger.

He can require it because by definition it is not a bedroom if it doesn't contain a closet with a pole.

Other wise we would be calling the living room a sleeping room too. How many people fall asleep in front of the TV?
 
cowboyjwc said:
Roger.

He can require it because by definition it is not a bedroom if it doesn't contain a closet with a pole.
Click to expand...

Where is this written that a pole or a closet makes a bedroom?

cowboyjwc said:
Other wise we would be calling the living room a sleeping room too. How many people fall asleep in front of the TV?
Click to expand...

So what are you saying?

If an inspector is requiring AFCI protection for closets they are simply making up their own rules.

Roger
 
I would also like to know where you are getting your definition of a "bedroom".

Neither the IRC or the IBC have definitions for a "Bedroom".

I agree with Roger, "If an inspector is requiring AFCI protection for closets they are simply making up their own rules."

Chris
 
allenwayne said:
This closet light in a bedroom was a long winded thread not to long ago.If my memory serves me well,the issue of it is required to be afci protected was contingent upon the switch being utilized as a point of utilization.The switch if a lighted switch would require the circut to be afci protected but if a standard SPST switch it would not.I believe this issue was never resolved.

To me once you enter a bedroom through the door and unless you enter a bathroom that requires other standards . The closet door still keeps it in the confines of the bedroom......I`m sure I`ll get flack from this statement !!!!
Click to expand...

So are you saying the bathroom is not part of the bedroom but the closet is ?
A closet is a small room (not always) that just happens to usually be entered from a bedroom.Lets call a bedroom a hall because you get to it from the hall.
Also where is that extra smoke detector.And if its part of the bedroom then spacing for receptacles must comply too.
 
The original question was "should the receptical also be AFC and the answer is YES. ALL bedroom circuits shall be on AFC, including the BEDROOM CLOSET. The key word here is BEDROOM. Reciptical outlet not required but if installed it must be on AFC.
 
Cavie said:
The original question was "should the receptical also be AFC and the answer is YES. ALL bedroom circuits shall be on AFC, including the BEDROOM CLOSET. The key word here is BEDROOM. Reciptical outlet not required but if installed it must be on AFC.
Click to expand...

That's Bull, can you show us where this is in writing.

As Finhead and Jim (just above your post) pointed out, if it's not a separate space then all the rules of the Bedroom must be required, if it is a seperate space, no AFCI is required.

It's a ClOTHES CLOSET located adjacent to a BEDROOM.

This is just another case of "that's the way we have always done it" with no substantiation except for that reasoning.

The wiring in this closet is separated from the bedroom by some type of finish, most liklely sheetrock, this would be the same as the wiring in any room next to the bedroom, so how does it differ from receptacles in a common living room/bedroom wall?

Roger
 
Lets say that there is a sitting room as part of the bedroom.It is only accessed from within the confines of the bedroom.Is this part of the actual bedroom and required to have AFCI protection or do you consider it another room all together ????

To me it would be part of the bedroom and require AFCI protection.Same as a closet within the confines of the bedroom.Now a bathroom is called a bathroom since it is a seperate room all together but a bedroom closet is called a bedroom closet since it is within the bedroom.JMHO.
 
allenwayne said:
Lets say that there is a sitting room as part of the bedroom.It is only accessed from within the confines of the bedroom.Is this part of the actual bedroom and required to have AFCI protection or do you consider it another room all together ????

To me it would be part of the bedroom and require AFCI protection.Same as a closet within the confines of the bedroom.Now a bathroom is called a bathroom since it is a seperate room all together but a bedroom closet is called a bedroom closet since it is within the bedroom.JMHO.
Click to expand...

I have to wonder myself, if it were part of the bedroom, and the closet wall was 2' long I would need a receptacle... but I don't, so why should it be AFI, the only thing I think should be AFI is if the closet switch is located IN the bedroom... Of course there is NO way i'm changing my wiring ways now just to prove a point, I generally run a feeder per bed room, lights and plugs together on a afi breaker...
 
Its really easy.Look at the print,it says what each rooms intended use is.Could we sleep in the living room ? Yes but its not required to be afci protected.Can you sleep in closet or bathroom ?
NEC says bedroom not bedroom closet.
I had to wire a home last year that print said was rec room or something like that for 2 room off a hall with a bath.I tried my best to get owner to go for afci and smoke detectors.Even the inspector didnt like this.I was hoping he would force them to be installed.They had no closets so had to let them go.Sick part was the owner told me they were mostly for his grandkids when they visit.He could easily have afforded them.Bottom line is we must go by the print.If that print says the little room off master bedroom is a bedroom then we wire it as one.We all have seen closets bigger than some mobile homes 3rd bedrooms.
 
Last edited:
Jim W in Tampa said:
Its really easy.Look at the print,it says what each rooms intended use is.Could we sleep in the living room ? Yes but its not required to be afci protected.Can you sleep in closet or bathroom ?
NEC says bedroom not bedroom closet.
I had to wire a home last year that print said was rec room or something like that for 2 room off a hall with a bath.I tried my best to get owner to go for afci and smoke detectors.Even the inspector didnt like this.I was hoping he would force them to be installed.They had no closets so had to let them go.Sick part was the owner told me they were mostly for his grandkids when they visit.He could easily have afforded them.Bottom line is we must go by the print.If that print says the little room off master bedroom is a bedroom then we wire it as one.We all have seen closets bigger than some mobile homes 3rd bedrooms.
Click to expand...

i agree 100%, the only room with a defination in the nec is a bathroom. personally i don't think I would have even asked the owner if he wanted them...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top