afci protection on smoke detectors.

[stew]

The state of wash this year added an exception which I think was an interim rule or something that says that afci protection is not required for smokes only in bedrooms. can anyone give me the specific wac exception I cannot locate it. Thanks

 

[throttlebody]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

1999 is protection of all outlets
2002 is protection of all outlets and of the entire branch circuit.
2005 is protection of all outlets and of the branch circuit.

Depending on the code year enforced, there are minor changes throughout the revisions as posted above. 2005 is the only NEC code that has exceptions, but they are not of the type to get one out of AFCI protection of those outlets.

210-12(B)<--Please reference this article for exact phrasing of requirements. Also, check with your B+D Official, they should have a list of state and local ammendments for your viewing.

Good Luck!

[ January 28, 2006, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: throttlebody ]

 

[throttlebody]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

Before I get flamed......

The reason I refer to the NEC article and contacting your Building Official in the above post is it is my understanding that when a state makes a law (model code) and adopts a reference, they aren't likely to rewrite it, only suppliment it.

[ January 28, 2006, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: throttlebody ]

 

[iwire]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

Originally posted by throttlebody:
1999 is protection of all outlets
2002 is protection of all outlets and of the entire branch circuit.

Not quite.

1999 NEC.

210-12. Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection

(b) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter(s). This requirement shall become effective January 1, 2002.

As you can see the 1999 NEC required the entire branch circuit to be protected but only if the circuit supplied receptacle outlets.

Once we got to 2002 NEC it changed.

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.

(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.

For 2002 it includes all branch circuit supplying an outlets in the bedrooms. That includes smoke detectors, lights, 120 volt heaters etc.

I believe both NJ and IN are two states that have removed all AFCI requirements.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

There is absolutley no reason that the smokes should not be fed from an afci protected circuit. Does it make the circuit safer. I doubt it. Does it make it a danger, nope.

 

[stew]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

somehow my point did not get across. I know what the nec says . In our state the wac rules but I cannot find the new exception for smokes. Tom baker are you out there?

 

[throttlebody]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

Thanks Bob, I forgot to type in receptacle for the 1999 listing. How I could have ever missed that at 2a.m. is beyond me.

I did, however, state

210-12(B)<--Please reference this article for exact phrasing of requirements.

as I was not quite determined to type out the entire article for each revision.


Sorry for the confusion Stew. The "probable" fastest and easiest way to obtain the WAC was in my last sentence. Contact the Building Official, he might be nice enough to make the references available for your viewing, or even get you a copy.

[ January 28, 2006, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: throttlebody ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

Originally posted by throttlebody:
Contact the Building Official, he might be nice enough to make the references available for your viewing,

I would hope so. It don't think these are classified documents.

 

[Jhr]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

The state of wash this year added an exception which I think was an interim rule or something that says that afci protection is not required for smokes only in bedrooms

And they are within their rights to do so, we must remember the NEC is not the law, a state or city does not have to adopt the NEC. And these can make exceptions or add according to their interpretation.

 

[throttlebody]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

Yep, they can throw them out the window.

 

[stew]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

yep and I threw the notice out the dang window too. cant find it anywhere and apparently it is not anywhere I can find in the archival info on the state website. I have an inspector(state) who has called me on it. I extended an existing circuit to feed new smokes in hall and bedroom and now this state guy wants them afci. He is a very picky type and has given everyone I know nothing but grief in this particular area. He is arrogant and full of his own power. He made me put ground loops from a self grounding receptacle to a metal box fed with mc cable that had the mc already tied to the box. Had to make a special 60 mi round trip to install a loop just to placate him. Therefore I want to get some bit of revenge here and remind him of the exception that he obvoisly with his higher intellegence should know.

 

[iwire]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

Originally posted by throttlebody:
Yep, they can throw them out the window.

They can throw them out or they can modify them.

Here is an example of the NEC being modified by MA.

90.4. Revise the first paragraph to read as follows:

90.4 Enforcement. This Code shall be used by the authority enforcing the Code and exercising legal jurisdiction over electrical installations. The authority having jurisdiction of enforcement of the Code shall accept listed and labeled equipment or materials where used or installed in accordance with instructions included with the listing or labeling. The authority shall have the responsibility for deciding upon the approval of unlisted or unlabeled equipment and materials, and for granting the special permission contemplated in a number of the rules.

 

[throttlebody]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

Stew, this is what I found for the WAC. I couldn't find any exception to the current rules. You have a little bit of research ahead of you. I have provided links.


Your links sir:

WAC Current

Proposals for changes in January 2006 Hearings

Electrical Laws, Rules and Policies(RCW)

[ January 28, 2006, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: throttlebody ]

 

[tom baker]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

There is no rule in our state "WAC" that exempts a smoke dector from AFCI protection.
Our WACs do a great job of modifying and correcting the many mistakes in the NEC
For example we require GFCI protection for any receptacle in a wet location.
And a kitchen countertop is a location where food and beverage preperation occurs.
And the best rule of all is since Aug 2003 the grounded conductor can not be used in place of the equipment grounding conductor, ie can reground the neutral in a separate building.

 

[jes25]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
There is absolutely no reason that the smokes should not be fed from an afci protected circuit. Does it make the circuit safer. I doubt it. Does it make it a danger, nope.

I totally agree, the rational I hear for not wanting the smokes on an AFCI is ridiculous. The what if it trips argument has no basis if the smokes are installed with a lighting circuit that will be used.( the master bed lights work out nice for this) The same people who want the smokes on a regular breaker usually are the same ones that say it should be on a dedicated circuit. :roll: The AFCI is there to prevent fires in the first place. I believe the code uses this logic when it requires the pool convenience GFCI recp. on a "general purpose branch circuit"

The next time someone says something about this to me I am gonna suggest I screw the smoke circuit the main buss bar to be sure it wont trip :roll:

With that said each state can make whatever law they want and we must follow it as professionals.

 

[dlhoule]

Re: afci protection on smoke detectors.

The next time someone says something about this to me I am gonna suggest I screw the smoke circuit the main buss bar to be sure it wont trip [Roll Eyes]

With that said each state can make whatever law they want and we must follow it as professionals.

But what happens when the fuse on POCO's xfmr blows? Maybe we need to supply it with a more reliable source with back up power.