AFCI Protection Question

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Sam65

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I need to get some opinions, as per the NEC 2002 arc fault protection is required in dwelling unit bedrooms. I have a master bedroom with a cased opening into the bathroom area, the inspector is saying that the bathroom must be on the arcfault circuit cause there is no door to separate the bedroom from the bathroom. How do you all see this? :confused:
 
Sam65 said:
I need to get some opinions, as per the NEC 2002 arc fault protection is required in dwelling unit bedrooms. I have a master bedroom with a cased opening into the bathroom area, the inspector is saying that the bathroom must be on the arcfault circuit cause there is no door to separate the bedroom from the bathroom. How do you all see this? :confused:
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I see a bathroom as a bathroom and a bedroom as a bedroom. The code does not address doors but rooms. The fact of the matter is the inspector can call it as he sees it. I don't think the code is clear enough on this issue.
 
Washington State is presently giving the public an opportunity to review the proposed state amendments to the 2008 NEC. One item being considered is a change to 210.12 that, among other things, explicitly excludes the bathroom from requiring AFCI protection. That is how I think it should be, and that is how I interpret the present 2002 and 2005 requirements. It may be worth noting that the word "bathroom" is defined in article 100, and that the definition says nothing about being associated with a bedroom.
 
Sam65 said:
I need to get some opinions, as per the NEC 2002 arc fault protection is required in dwelling unit bedrooms. I have a master bedroom with a cased opening into the bathroom area, the inspector is saying that the bathroom must be on the arcfault circuit cause there is no door to separate the bedroom from the bathroom. How do you all see this? :confused:
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I agree with Dennis. Why would the missing door classify a bath as a bed room. This is not done with any other room in the houes. I have no doors between my kitchen and living room...
 
The bathroom has it's own requirements and is not part of the bedroom. The inspector could interpret the portion of the room up to the bathroom but I do not believe the bathroom would fall under the AFCI requirement.

So does he wish for this requirement to be AFCI also in the bathroom?

(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
supply the bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall
have no other outlets.

Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single
bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same
bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance
with 210.23(A).

Anyway......I would not require AFCI in the bathroom

Thats my opinion....i am sure others will have their own.
 
I will post the 2008 rule on arc faults. It is clear that bathrooms are excluded. I guess the question is of definition and as others have also said, a room is not defined by the door.

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
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Also art. 100 definition of a bathroom does not require a door

Bathroom. An area including a basin with one or more of the following: a toilet, a tub, or a shower.
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If this doesn't please the inspector tell him to call me. I'll set him straight.:grin:
 
According to Dennis' answer you would then have to have GFCI protection for the bedroom receptecales.:grin: If it goes bedroom to bathroom why wouldn't it go bathroom to bedroom?

The definition of a bathroom calls it an "area" not a room. We tend to consider a room to be completely sperated by a wall or door. If what the inspector was citing was the case, my kitchen would be huge, as you simply pass through to the dining/family room which just passes into the living room and the kitchen and living room are both connected directly to the entry.

The more time I spend on this forum the more I am convinced that we really do need a definition for everything. It's almost like the three blind men trying to describe an elephant.:smile:
 
Along the same vein, under the 2005 code, would the AFCI requirement extend into a walk-in closet seperated from the bedroom by a door? And in the back wall of the closet, a short door leads to a storage room under the sloped roof; does this require AFCI protection as well?
 
This same question arose with the introduction of the AFCI in the State of TN. It was determined that an invisible line should be drawn and the bedroom area shall be AFCI protected just as the bath area shall have the GFCI protection where required.
 
G0049 said:
Along the same vein, under the 2005 code, would the AFCI requirement extend into a walk-in closet seperated from the bedroom by a door? And in the back wall of the closet, a short door leads to a storage room under the sloped roof; does this require AFCI protection as well?
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You plan to be sleeping in those areas?
 
jamesoftn said:
This same question arose with the introduction of the AFCI in the State of TN. It was determined that an invisible line should be drawn and the bedroom area shall be AFCI protected just as the bath area shall have the GFCI protection where required.
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Wow, common sense was used. That's a nice change.
 
I simply would ask myself ,...hmmm lets see here ,...do I $#!% ,. shower and shave in a bedroom or bathroom?? .,..:)
 
Bedroom Closet

Bedroom Closet

Asked inspector why he is requiring the light fixture in the bedroom closet to be on afci circuit since the closet had a door, said cause the switch was in the bedroom, Is the switch an outlet? By defenition I don't see the switch as an outlet. :-?
 
Hmmmm,.. a switch ,......as an outlet ????
edit ,... the link did not work
 
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Many inspectors, including our jurisdiction consider the closet to be part of the bedroom. The rationalization is that if the room doesn't have a closet, then it is most likely not a bedroom and simply a den or what not.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Many inspectors, including our jurisdiction consider the closet to be part of the bedroom. The rationalization is that if the room doesn't have a closet, then it is most likely not a bedroom and simply a den or what not.
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Sort of indirect logic but I believe many areas look at it that way.

Then you have the problem if I have a bedroom with no closet then I wouldn't need afci nor smoke detectors. I bet you would change your opinion there. :grin:
 
Sam65 said:
Asked inspector why he is requiring the light fixture in the bedroom closet to be on afci circuit since the closet had a door, said cause the switch was in the bedroom, Is the switch an outlet? By defenition I don't see the switch as an outlet. :-?
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No a switch is not "The Outlet" as it is a device. However , the bedroom closet is within the bedroom ( much like inside of a conduit in a wet location is still a wet location )...so the lighting outlet within the closet is an outlet within the bedroom and would require AFCI protection under 2005 NEC. ( becomes kinda moot in 2008 NEC anyway so I wont comment on it )

Now a closet ( under 2005 NEC Mind You ) in a hall is not required to be AFCI because...well its not within the bedroom.

Others may agree...but that is how our locality does it and I have traveled around the country and would venture to say most see it that way.
 
radiopet said:
No a switch is not "The Outlet" as it is a device.
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For those with a problem sleeping, and who haven't endured this marathon before, the notion of a switch being, or not being, an outlet is the subject of the single longest thread this forum has ever known.

Let's not open that topic again, just now, if you please. If anyone wants to comment on that topic, you must first complete the required reading, here:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=58998
:D
 
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