AFCI Protection

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remillard

Member
Location
Bellingham, Massachusetts
Hi Mike,
We are giving a 15hr. code update class this weekend a question came up about AFCI protection. I.A.W 210.12 it doesn't state that AFCI protection is needed for lighting in kitchens, bathrooms and cellars since the receptacles are GFCI protected. Myself and the other instructor disagree on this one,
I stated they should be AFCI protected and he feels they should not be because 210.12 states these rooms are exempt. Is this an ovrsight on the panels part of proper clarification? I hope you can get back yo me before Sunday 3pm
Thanks Mike

Leo
 
J

J Dave

Member
Afci

Afci

The 2008 NEC (Section 210.12 B) Dwelling Units- All 120 volt 15 and 20 amp branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit Family rooms, dinning rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

WAIT A MINUTE WHAT ABOUT BATHROOMS, KITCHENS AND GARAGES??

Basically the key is in the term " or similar rooms or areas " as none of the areas listed have sinks, tubs, unfinished areas like concrete floors and so on. So in turn Kitchens, Bathrooms and Garages are not really " similar " areas like you would have with the other habitable rooms

Is the NEC saying you won't have arc faults in kitchens, bathrooms and garages??

Later J Dave
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
Mike does not normally visit this forum although it is run through his enterprise. He leaves all the dirty work to us. :grin: So I will take a stab at your question .

I assume you are talking about the 2008 NEC (I don't know the I.A.W.) . According to the NEC in 2008 I have to say that the wording will exclude lighting or any other wiring in a kitchen, basement or bathroom from being on arc fault. Did they intend this-- I don't think so but nonetheless the wording is pretty clear.

I would bet the intent was to keep the lighting on arc fault but it seems as tho it may have fallen through the cracks.

The fact that the receptacles are GFCI protected does not influence the fact that arc fault would be needed. An arc fault performs a very different function than a GFCI. If you had a bedroom protected with ground fault, for whatever reason, you would still need the arc fault on that circuit.

They also make combo arc fault, gfci breakers that should not be confused with the combonation arc fault. A combo arc fault works on series as well as parallel faults. These are required as of Jan1, 2008 as per NEC 2005.

I am not sure why the Kit, basements and baths are exempt but at least my response will pull this thread to the top and get others to take a stab at it.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Staff member
Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
Leo,
The code panel had to draw the line somewhere. They may have felt that it would be confusing to require the lighting circuits in those rooms to be AFCI protected and not require the receptacle circuits to be so protected. The code is clear and it says what the other instructor says. The lighting branch circuit is for those rooms is not required to have AFCI protection.
Don
 
infinity

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
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Here is what Mike did say about that requirement:

711ecmCSfig8.jpg
 
K

keesha

Member
Location
North Of Boston/So.NH
infinity said:
Here is what Mike did say about that requirement:

711ecmCSfig8.jpg
Click to expand...

Perhaps logic enterd in. Most EC will have these areas on the same light ckt (depending on the size of course),Perhaps they saw no need to specificaly mention them.

Bathrooms may have been left alone to keep the flexability we have now on wireing them.

Just a guess.

Leo Please get back to us with the "Tamper res." reaction after Sunday.:wink:


.
 
G

gndrod

Senior Member
Location
Ca and Wa
AFCI-lighting exclusion

AFCI-lighting exclusion

Interestingly to note that the floor plan lacks showing a furnace in the garage or a basement partial view of an area that would generally have an air handler. Note that all the areas for bathroom, kitchen, utility, garage and basement that are not included...generally have motor operated blower devices. With that, there is no stipulation in the NEC as to what type of motor is required to be used in those areas.

In other words all those areas can have a commutated armature type motor that will not fair well in an AFCI supplied environment. This seems reasonable, but most fan motors use brushless type configurations. This may be the reasoning behind the omission. JMO rbj
 
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S

sileo family

Member
what about when you are doing a service upgrade, are they requiring that we need to use the arc fault breakers when we do them?
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Retired Electrical Contractor
gndrod said:
Note that all the areas for bathroom, kitchen, utility, garage and basement that are not included...generally have motor operated blower devices.
Click to expand...

This was my initial thought also. I am thinking table saws, etc in basements. Mixer etc in the kitchen. Hairblowers in the baths. Perhaps with the new combination arc faults that have not been installed yet they were concerned about the functionality of those motors in these situations.

We will see on the next code cycle.
 
infinity

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
sileo family said:
what about when you are doing a service upgrade, are they requiring that we need to use the arc fault breakers when we do them?
Click to expand...


I would say no, but it's really up to the AHJ to decide this. Some jurisdictions have rules regarding bringing everything up to the current code when a certain amount of work is done.
 
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