AFCI revisted

[ElectricianJeff]

I started in this business by wiring new homes while working for someone else.. However, for the last 4+ years I have strictly been doing service work, upgrades, troubleshooting, etc. since I started working on my own.

I have bid several new homes the last few years but never get the job because I'm to high. The EC's around here that do new homes must work real cheap.

A customer of mine, who I upgraded the service in his personal res. a year or so ago is building a spec. home which he has asked me to wire. I am wiring this on a T&M basis which should help give me a gauge for future bids. This is his 4th spec, he does one every couple of years.

The house is a 3 bedroom, 1600 sf ranch on crawl, total electric. Right up my alley as a small one man operation. No plans, blank canvas, he told me just to wire it like I owned it.

Enough background....heres my question:

Everthing I know about AFCI's I have learned here on this forum. I have never installed one of the breakers and want to make sure I'm going about this right.

I spoke with the AHJ last week and here AFCI's are required on bedroom receps. only, not on lights or smokes.

I roughed the 3 bedrooms on Friday and heres what I did:

Put each of the bedrooms receps. and closet light on a seperate circut 20 amp. circut, 1 per bedroom, 3 total.

I put the 3 ceiling fans, hall light and recep. on a 4th circut.

I used extra care in securing the conductors for the 3 AFCI circuts and plan on pigtailing them and testing them, in the owners presence, before covering.

Is there anything I'm missing here? Should I be good to go with this arrangement?

I realize this is old hat to many of you but since it's new to me I will appreciate any advice offered. This will be a fun job for me but I don't want to worry about these darn AFCI's for next few weeks.

As an added bonus the bricklayers are teaching me Spanish!

Thanks in adavance.....

 

[iwire]

I spoke with the AHJ last week and here AFCI's are required on bedroom receps. only, not on lights or smokes.

So your on the 1999 NEC?

Or did your area make amendments to the 210.12?

Put each of the bedrooms receps. and closet light on a separate circuit 20 amp. circuit, 1 per bedroom, 3 total.

I put the 3 ceiling fans, hall light and recep. on a 4th circut.

That will work and is probably over kill but it is T&M so how can you loose.

I assume these where done with 2 wire circuits, no multi wire circuits?

 

[JohnJ0906]

What NEC cycle are you under. '02 to present requires all outlets in bedrooms to be AFCI.

You pulled seperate home runs? (No MWBCs?) Most manufacterers don't make a 2-pole AFCI.

Did you pull the lighting circuit as a seperate HR, just in case?

Other than that, it sounds good.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't do anything special for arc fault circuits. I wire them as carefully as I do all the others. Mark them at the panel and remember when you cut the panel in to not connect the neutrals from those circuits to the neutral bar. Those neutrals will have to go on the arc fault.

 

[ptonsparky]

Sounds ok, but I agree the # of circuits is overkill. Specially for a spec home.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sounds ok, but I agree the # of circuits is overkill. Specially for a spec home.

Yeah but he still can splice all three in the panel and use one arc fault if he chooses.

 

[JohnJ0906]

Yeah but he still can splice all three in the panel and use one arc fault if he chooses.

Why? He's getting T+M! :grin:

 

[ElectricianJeff]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I'm not sure on the code cycle because I didn't ask. Every county around here is different. Some just make up there own code as they go.

I am a fan of MWBC because I work by myself and saves me time but I know they won't work on AFCI circuts. I have some 12/2/2 on the truck that I will probably use for the Bedrooms and 12/3 the rest. I will put my MWBC's on 2-pole breakers because it just makes sense to me.

Thanks again, it looks like I have a good plan and will sleep well.

 

[ElectricianJeff]

oops.........a couple more comments while I was typing.

For some reason I thought each bedroom needed its own AFCI circut. If not, I'll tie the 2 small bedrooms together and get it down to two and save him a few bucks. I havn't pulled HR's yet because the POCO won't be there till Monday to let me know exactlly where they want the service.

 

[mdshunk]

I have some 12/2/2 on the truck that I will probably use for the Bedrooms and 12/3 the rest.

Just keep an eye on box fill when you use that 12-2-2. You're going to have a 12-2-2 into the box, and two 12-2's leaving, plus your receptacle. That's normally going to force you to use a deep 4-square with a mud ring instead of the nail-on Carlon box you might have planned on.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Also, unless your area has amended the code then the lights and smokes also need to be on the arc fault. Not sure where your understanding came from.

 

[Minuteman]

Also, unless your area has amended the code then the lights and smokes also need to be on the arc fault. Not sure where your understanding came from.

May be the old "Is a switch an outlet?"

FYI Jeff, anything than utilizes current is an outlet. So, just about everything on a 15 or 20 amp circuit in those bedrooms would need Arc Fault protection. One exception would be like a switch in the room that controls a light outside of the room.

 

[ElectricianJeff]

Also, unless your area has amended the code then the lights and smokes also need to be on the arc fault. Not sure where your understanding came from.

Thanks Marc, I'll check the boxfill but actually I never seen an inspector around here ever check it.

I specifically asked the inspector about the AFCI's. He said, "Bedroom receps only" I asked, "no lights or smokes?" He said "Nope, receps only!". A man of few words, I guess.

I also asked him about putting the hallway light on with the smokes. He told me, after a long pause, he had never seen it done that way but he "guessed" it would probably be OK. I've elected not to do that to hopefuly eliminate any stress it might cause him.

 

[ceb58]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I'm not sure on the code cycle because I didn't ask. Every county around here is different. Some just make up there own code as they go.

I am a fan of MWBC because I work by myself and saves me time but I know they won't work on AFCI circuts. I have some 12/2/2 on the truck that I will probably use for the Bedrooms and 12/3 the rest. I will put my MWBC's on 2-pole breakers because it just makes sense to me.

Thanks again, it looks like I have a good plan and will sleep well.

Other than T&M or a local amendment, why #12 for bedrooms? After you install the recpt. and before you make your connections in the panel ohm the neutral and ground to make sure they are not touching each other on one of the recpt. makes life easier

 

[ElectricianJeff]

Other than T&M or a local amendment, why #12 for bedrooms? After you install the recpt. and before you make your connections in the panel ohm the neutral and ground to make sure they are not touching each other on one of the recpt. makes life easier

I 'assume' its a local amendment, first thing the inspector said was "#12 only". Actually in a city about 30 minutes north of me where I use to wire alot of new homes, they amended code to #12 only, but if you use 15 amp. receps then you have to use 15 amp. breakers. Talk about a waste of copper.

I will ohm out, in fact I'm going to temporarily energize the bedrooms to make sure the AFCI's are happy. It will help me sleep. I sometimes think I worry to much about this stuff.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I 'assume' its a local amendment, first thing the inspector said was "#12 only". Actually in a city about 30 minutes north of me where I use to wire alot of new homes, they amended code to #12 only, but if you use 15 amp. receps then you have to use 15 amp. breakers. Talk about a waste of copper.

I will ohm out, in fact I'm going to temporarily energize the bedrooms to make sure the AFCI's are happy. It will help me sleep. I sometimes think I worry to much about this stuff.

Thanks for all the help.

You do worry too much. I see you posted at 4 AM--- get some sleep.

 

[ceb58]

I 'assume' its a local amendment, first thing the inspector said was "#12 only". Actually in a city about 30 minutes north of me where I use to wire alot of new homes, they amended code to #12 only, but if you use 15 amp. receps then you have to use 15 amp. breakers. Talk about a waste of copper.

I will ohm out, in fact I'm going to temporarily energize the bedrooms to make sure the AFCI's are happy. It will help me sleep. I sometimes think I worry to much about this stuff.

Thanks for all the help.

Jeff, be careful of what you "assume" believe it or not there are some inspectors that will make up their own rules as they go. I would want to SEE the amendment in writing. There was a county next to me that had the same #12 only rule, until some one finely questioned this with the state board. It came down to this, the state had ruled that which ever NEC code cycle was adopted at the time was good enough and the counties could not amend it. I know you are in a different state and the rules are not the same, what I am saying is sometimes the inspector will cost you money with nothing to back it up with except "because I said so"
Rember you spell assume ASS-U-ME