AFCI
- Thread starter WMitch
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: AFCI
I have heard the bedrooms where a problem area for electrical fires.
In my opinion once AFCIs mature into a proven technology you will see the requirements expand.
I have heard the bedrooms where a problem area for electrical fires.
In my opinion once AFCIs mature into a proven technology you will see the requirements expand.
sparky_magoo
Senior Member
- Location
- Reno
Re: AFCI
A large number of fires start when arcing cords in bedrooms ignite bedding or piles of laundry on the floor. The effectiveniss of AFCI's is largely unknown. I believe the bedroom requirement is a test to see if the number of fires are reduced in bedrooms.
A large number of fires start when arcing cords in bedrooms ignite bedding or piles of laundry on the floor. The effectiveniss of AFCI's is largely unknown. I believe the bedroom requirement is a test to see if the number of fires are reduced in bedrooms.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: AFCI
Don
The currently available AFCIs provide very limited protection for that type of problem.
Don
Re: AFCI
When you think about it the AFCI, if it works as designed, is an awesome product. Then, yes, if it is so great why wouldn't it be mandatory for every branch circuit?
That would be the ideal thing.
But it's new technology and how much resistance would there be to such a code requirement when it would add a tremendous amount to the cost.
I think the transition is going in this direction:
At first the code just recognized it as a good thing to have but not a requirement. Then probably looked at where electrical fires are most likely to start and likely to be life threatening which bedroom areas would be the most logical place and made them mandatory in those areas which makes sense.
It strongly believe that as time passes and there is enough new construction that AFCIs are installed to develop a data base to document the value of the AFCI that we'll see the AFCI being required in other areas of the home.
I think that all we have to go on is the manufacturers testing and that UL has recognized it as such. We look at it as "how can the darned thing work as they say it does" when it comes to series arcing. How can it differentiate between the legitimate arcing the occurs in the universal motor in an appliance, hair dryer, vacuum cleaner, etc. and an actual L-N or series arc?
The more AFCIs that are installed, the more case studies there will be. If it proves itself we will most likely see the AFCI uses in other living areas of the home.
Because of technology there should be improvement in AFCI arc sensing ability as well as volume and competition eventually reducing the cost.
I also believe the the?insurance companies should begin to recognize the AFCI as a significant way to reduce fire losses if the statistics prove that they do. Remember that insurance companies are big on statistics. They may provide the homeowner a premium reduction if they have AFCIs.
I personably don't believe that the AFCI has had enough opportunity to make an impact yet.
When you think about it the AFCI, if it works as designed, is an awesome product. Then, yes, if it is so great why wouldn't it be mandatory for every branch circuit?
That would be the ideal thing.
But it's new technology and how much resistance would there be to such a code requirement when it would add a tremendous amount to the cost.
I think the transition is going in this direction:
At first the code just recognized it as a good thing to have but not a requirement. Then probably looked at where electrical fires are most likely to start and likely to be life threatening which bedroom areas would be the most logical place and made them mandatory in those areas which makes sense.
It strongly believe that as time passes and there is enough new construction that AFCIs are installed to develop a data base to document the value of the AFCI that we'll see the AFCI being required in other areas of the home.
I think that all we have to go on is the manufacturers testing and that UL has recognized it as such. We look at it as "how can the darned thing work as they say it does" when it comes to series arcing. How can it differentiate between the legitimate arcing the occurs in the universal motor in an appliance, hair dryer, vacuum cleaner, etc. and an actual L-N or series arc?
The more AFCIs that are installed, the more case studies there will be. If it proves itself we will most likely see the AFCI uses in other living areas of the home.
Because of technology there should be improvement in AFCI arc sensing ability as well as volume and competition eventually reducing the cost.
I also believe the the?insurance companies should begin to recognize the AFCI as a significant way to reduce fire losses if the statistics prove that they do. Remember that insurance companies are big on statistics. They may provide the homeowner a premium reduction if they have AFCIs.
I personably don't believe that the AFCI has had enough opportunity to make an impact yet.
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: AFCI
If the bedroom is one area known for increased fire hazard, it does seem a little unusual at first. After all, how much electrical power is required to supply an alarm clock?
On the other hand, I heard or read somewhere that one of the most common causes for house fires is the television. If this is true, and I don't doubt it is, it would also add support to the increased potential in bedrooms where televisions are used. It's too easy and common for persons to fall asleep with that box turned on and the dust and heat mix to form a fire hazard waiting to happen. Has anyone found evidence that links the higher fire risk in bedrooms to televisions also in the bedroom?
Edit: And finally, does installing arc-fault increase the level of protection for this type of risk?
Bob
[ October 25, 2005, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: bthielen ]
If the bedroom is one area known for increased fire hazard, it does seem a little unusual at first. After all, how much electrical power is required to supply an alarm clock?
On the other hand, I heard or read somewhere that one of the most common causes for house fires is the television. If this is true, and I don't doubt it is, it would also add support to the increased potential in bedrooms where televisions are used. It's too easy and common for persons to fall asleep with that box turned on and the dust and heat mix to form a fire hazard waiting to happen. Has anyone found evidence that links the higher fire risk in bedrooms to televisions also in the bedroom?
Edit: And finally, does installing arc-fault increase the level of protection for this type of risk?
Bob
[ October 25, 2005, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: bthielen ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: AFCI
I can't say. It's been many years since we've had a TV in the bedroom.
I can't say. It's been many years since we've had a TV in the bedroom.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: AFCI
There are no good numbers on fire cause and origin in dwelling units as most such fires are not investigated by a trained investigator, but rather by the company officer that responded to the incident. Also the numbers used to show the need for AFCIs showed that 85% of the dwelling unit fires of "electrical origin" occurred in dwelling units over 20 years old. Do you really expect that the 20 year old AFCI will still be working given that it is an electronic device that is sensitive to spikes and surges and is not a fail safe device?
Don
[ October 25, 2005, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]
The numbers do not show that the bedroom is where the most electrical fires start, but the numbers do show that the bedroom is where most dwelling unit fatalities occur.
There are no good numbers on fire cause and origin in dwelling units as most such fires are not investigated by a trained investigator, but rather by the company officer that responded to the incident. Also the numbers used to show the need for AFCIs showed that 85% of the dwelling unit fires of "electrical origin" occurred in dwelling units over 20 years old. Do you really expect that the 20 year old AFCI will still be working given that it is an electronic device that is sensitive to spikes and surges and is not a fail safe device?
Don
[ October 25, 2005, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: AFCI
Excellent point in regards to a 20 year old afci.Guess that answer will have to wait till 2022 to be answered
Excellent point in regards to a 20 year old afci.Guess that answer will have to wait till 2022 to be answered
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