I installed a afci 15 amp breaker today into a new service upgrade.The room that this breaker feeds is a newley constructed bedroom in the basement area.The studs are still exposed.The problem is that the recessed can lights are tripping the breaker,but only when the light bulb is installed.If the bulb is removed the breaker won't trip.Am I missing some thing here?I did'nt do the electrical work in this room but I did take every can lt. apart and inspect them and found no problems. Does anyone have any solution to my problem?
AFCI
- Thread starter tohatsu
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The most common reason for that would be an accidental connection between the neutral and the EGC. The AFCIs have a 30-50mA ground fault trip in them. If there is a load and a neutral to grounding connection, then the GFP part of the AFCI will cause it to trip.
Don
Don
ramsy
NoFixNoPay Electric
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Don's point also applies to existing bootleg/false grounds or washer & dryers with bonded EGC's, but don't those GFCI / AFCI breakers always nuisance trip on shared neutrals, extra-long runs, and other capacitive lighting, such as compact fluorescent?
larryl
Senior Member
- Location
- wrentham ma.
good morning,
check with the ahj,"aka-wiring inspector"believe it or not,you may not need to put them in on a sevice upgrade,in mass. we dont need to install them on upgrade's.
try putting a switch in,instead of a dimmer,if there's a dimmer there now,
maybe it's a cheap dimmer,
good luck,& wecome to the forum,,there's a ton of great info here,
check with the ahj,"aka-wiring inspector"believe it or not,you may not need to put them in on a sevice upgrade,in mass. we dont need to install them on upgrade's.
try putting a switch in,instead of a dimmer,if there's a dimmer there now,
maybe it's a cheap dimmer,
good luck,& wecome to the forum,,there's a ton of great info here,
larryl said:
Larry, thanks for the welcome,this seems to be a great site for ele. info.Larry there is no dimmer just a switch and I don't usually install an afci breaker on an upgrade the exception in this case is that the homeowner has completely remodeled his basement - framing in 4 different rooms one of them being a bedroom.I removed the lighting circuit frim this breaker but was just wondering why wouldn't work.I think I will call my inspector today and see what he has to say.Thanks for the info guys.
tonyi
Senior Member
Pull the breaker and disconnect the neutral and gnd from the panel. Check for continuity between branch neutral and gnd (all controlling switches ON). If you see continuity, then there's a bootleg gnd somewhere.
Almost any kind of load at all is going to send at least 30ma down the gnd wire and trip the AFCI when there's a bootleg.
If any older fixtures were recycled into this job, check to see if there isn't a strap bonding a metalic canopy/frame to the neutral. I've seen this on some older stuff. That's a guaranteed AFCI trip.
A bootleg could be anywhere on the branch - not necessarily the lights. The lights may only be guilty of causing enough load to generate the trip.
Almost any kind of load at all is going to send at least 30ma down the gnd wire and trip the AFCI when there's a bootleg.
If any older fixtures were recycled into this job, check to see if there isn't a strap bonding a metalic canopy/frame to the neutral. I've seen this on some older stuff. That's a guaranteed AFCI trip.
A bootleg could be anywhere on the branch - not necessarily the lights. The lights may only be guilty of causing enough load to generate the trip.
I played phone tag all day with my inspector and never did get to talk to him.But you guys are great and gave me a little more insite to this problem.I have to go back to that job tomorrow and will check for a few of the things that you guys have posted.Thanks again for all of your help.
Thanks yunz guys
Thanks yunz guys
To everyone that offered advise on my problem, I thank you.I went back to that job today and after removing all of the recpticals in the bedroom on the very last one I found a slice in a common made by a razor knife by the homeowner that installed these devises.So now all is well.Thanks again
Rick
Thanks yunz guys
To everyone that offered advise on my problem, I thank you.I went back to that job today and after removing all of the recpticals in the bedroom on the very last one I found a slice in a common made by a razor knife by the homeowner that installed these devises.So now all is well.Thanks again
Rick
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Isn't it always the last place you look?
On another note, there is an example of an AFCI doing it's job. I have a new tract here in town and they were having trouble with the AFCI's tripping so to fix it they simply thought that they could remove them. I told them to go find out why they were tripping, sure enough a staple that had been installed to deep had cut across the wires.
On another note, there is an example of an AFCI doing it's job. I have a new tract here in town and they were having trouble with the AFCI's tripping so to fix it they simply thought that they could remove them. I told them to go find out why they were tripping, sure enough a staple that had been installed to deep had cut across the wires.
cowboyjwc said:
Ockham's razor at work. Most of us are all too often guilty of quickly writing off AFCI and/or GFCI trips as nuisance trips when they may actually be performing their intended function.
(This is not to be construed as an AFCI endorsement or a claim that they actually work as intended. It's just that sometimes they do.)
- Status