AFCI's and circuits "passing through"

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goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
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New Jersey
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Electrical Contractor
During a contractors association meeting this week we had a representative from Siemens doing a "dog and pony" show about their products. One of the items he touched on was the use of AFCI breakers. (BTW, we here in NJ have been one of the states holding out on the use of AFCI's). Aside from the usual requirements we talk about here in the forum, like their required use in all circuits serving bedrooms, he made mention that any circuit wiring "passing through" these areas also has to be AFCI protected. Can anyone verify if this is correct ? I don't recall this ever coming up in conversation here in the forum. (But I've been known to be wrong in the past !!!)
 
If he means wires that are in the walls that don't terminate in the room than he is off base.
Art. 210.12(A) states

all 120volt, single phase, 15 and 20 amp branch circuits supplying outlets......
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I don't think those wire could possibly qualify

2008 it won't make much difference anyway.
 
goldstar said:
. . . any circuit wiring "passing through" these areas also has to be AFCI protected.
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Define "passing through." :rolleyes:

We've even come to the concensus that a switch within such an area that controls a load outside the area does not require such protection.
 
480sparky said:
Maybe it's just intentional misinformation (propoganda) to try to increase his sales?
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Unbelievable! Ah, the 'carefully orchestrated confusion' method is so productive for the merchandizers. :smile:
 
goldstar said:
During a contractors association meeting this week we had a representative from Siemens doing a "dog and pony" show about their products. One of the items he touched on was the use of AFCI breakers. (BTW, we here in NJ have been one of the states holding out on the use of AFCI's). Aside from the usual requirements we talk about here in the forum, like their required use in all circuits serving bedrooms, he made mention that any circuit wiring "passing through" these areas also has to be AFCI protected. Can anyone verify if this is correct ? I don't recall this ever coming up in conversation here in the forum. (But I've been known to be wrong in the past !!!)
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My guess is he is refering to the 2008. That is most likley how the whole idea of covering most wireing with AFC in 2008 came from.
 
LarryFine said:
Define "passing through."
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That's the exact question I asked. His response was that if a breaker panel were located in the basement directly below a bedroom and you had to run an NMC (unbroken) for say the garage up the bedroom wall and across through the ceiling rafters of a bedroom that wiring would have to be AFCI protected. Even if that were a correct statement how would an inspector find this and enforce the code ?
Cavie said:
My guess is he is refering to the 2008.
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Yes he was. He was not a code official and I'm sure he would not be able to site a code section.
 
Cavie said:
My guess is he is refering to the 2008.

goldstar said:
Yes he was. He was not a code official and I'm sure he would not be able to site a code section.
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Interesting.
The salesman attempting to sell items based on a code article that has yet to be accepted by NJ.

You did say it was a "dog & pony show".
 
celtic said:
You did say it was a "dog & pony show".
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Yes I did. You know what happens at these meetings, a guy steps up to the podium, an eloquent speaker and apparently knowledgable about his product and what he's talking about , and then he makes a statement like this - everyone takes it as being Gospel truth until proven otherwise. I wish I could rummage through the 2008 code book but I don't have one yet !!!
 
Here's 210.12 from the 2008:

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
(A) Definition: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter. An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.

(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

Branch/feeder AFCIs shall be permitted to be used to meet the requirements of 210.12(B) until January 1, 2008.

FPN No. 1: For information on types of arc-fault circuit interrupters, see UL 1699-1999, Standard for Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters.

FPN No. 2: See 11.6.3(5) of NFPA 72 2007, National Fire Alarm Code, for information related to secondary power supply requirements for smoke alarms installed in dwelling units.

FPN No. 3: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for power supply requirements for fire alarms systems.

Exception No. 1: Where RMC, IMC, EMT or steel armored cable, Type AC, meeting the requirements of 250.118 using metal outlet and junction boxes is installed for the portion of the branch circuit between the branch circuit overcurrent device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to install a combination AFCI at the first outlet to provide protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit.

Exception No. 2: Where a branch circuit to a fire alarm system installed in accordance with 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) is installed in RMC, IMC, or EMT, or steel armored cable, Type AC, meeting the requirements of 250.118, with metal outlet and junction boxes, AFCI protection shall be permitted to be omitted.
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Edit to add: I agree with the above, the dog and pony spokesman misspoke.
 
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210.12 (B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
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georgestolz said:
Edit to add: I agree with the above, the dog and pony spokesman misspoke.
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Quite possibly so but after reading the 2008 version of 210.12(B) it's obvious it's changed quite a bit from the last code cycle. Looks like we'll be protecting just about the entire house. Why not just keep going and protect the garage too ? There aren't that many more rooms left.

Talk about increasing sales, your average service upgrade just went up a few hundred $$.
 
goldstar said:
Talk about increasing sales, your average service upgrade just went up a few hundred $$.
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Why?

NJ has yet to accept the '08.

Even if the provisions of 210.12 are accepted as written, the Rehab Code may allow you to ignore it or add AFCI as "optional".

It will be interesting to see how the State of NJ handles this.
 
Iwire said:
It appears that in most areas AFCIs are not required for service changes.
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You're right but with changes like this in the wording I sense it coming somewhere down the road.
celtic said:
Even if the provisions of 210.12 are accepted as written, the Rehab Code may allow you to ignore it or add AFCI as "optional".
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You're right. I forgot about that.
It will be interesting to see how the State of NJ handles this.
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Yes it will. However, the inference that this salesman made was that acceptance of this code section was imminent but based on our past performance here in NJ I don't see that happening.
 
danickstr said:
the local wholesale shop has them on the counter (2008's)
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That does not mean they have been accepted by the AHJ for that area - what area are you in?


(When does the errata come out? :smile: )
 
i guess i'm behind in my codes in residential -- i wired a residential smoke detector circuit form the kitchen lighting circuit which wasn't ACFI protected. inspector said "anything in a bedroom must be AFCI protected"... i added a AFCI breaker on the kitchen lighting circuit and he bought that. but, i was always under the idea that the AFCI was to mainly detect arcing extention cords. i really see little added protection on a smoke detector!!!
 
charlie tuna said:
. . . i was always under the idea that the AFCI was to mainly detect arcing extention cords.
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It originally was, for extension cords, power strips, and lighting, appliance, and electronic device cords. The manufacturers of devices sometimes "manufacture" greater needs-and-solutions than reality calls for.
 
It originally was, for extension cords, power strips, and lighting, appliance, and electronic device cords.
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That is what they told us in the orginal proposals for the 1996 code, however, the AFCI breaker that is currently being used does not provide protection for those types of devices. The "combination" type that is required starting 1/1/08 is said to provide that type of protection.
Don
 
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