All bath receptacles on 20A circuits?

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KJay

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I believe that the intent of 210.11, C, 3 was to require all receptacle outlets in dwelling unit bathrooms to be supplied by at least one 20A circuit, but it seems that with the exclusion of the word "ALL" that this would also allow other receptacle outlets on 15A circuits to be installed in bathrooms.

Keeping this in mind, and if so, couldn't someone interpret this to say that the receptacle outlet required by 210.52, D within 3-feet of the outside edge of the sink wouldn't be required to be on a 20A circuit?

Seems that adding the word "All" would clarify this if indeed the intent were that all receptacle outlets are to be on a 20A circuits.

Was this an intentional omission to continue to allow fan/lights units with their internal receptacles to still be connected to 15A lighting circuits in these bathrooms? :-?

Also posted to ECN earlier today.
 
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Section 210.52 (D) tells you where the receptacles are required and section 210.11 (C) is the circuit requirement. The receptacle inside a fan/light does not fall under the 210.52 (D) requirement.
 
The code says what the code says. I don't see this as a mistake by the CMP, More that they are not trying to be to restrictive.
 
Let's see if I can add to this argument. I just got some specs on a Robern Medicine cabinet. In it there is a GFCI Recep. as well as two rocker switches which activate a light in the mirror as well as a defogger for the mirror. It is UL approved and is setup for just one feed. The mirror light and defogger are on the load side of the GFCI. I believe I can tamper with it and add a separate feed for the Recep. :roll: Iknow then I may void the UL listing. What to do, what to do....

Anyway this install seems to support the theory that not all recep. in the bathroom need to be on a 20 amp circuit. Of course, what UL approves does not necessarily relate to the NEC. Also a recep. in the cabinet does not satisfy the required counter recep. which, btw, I have that under control.

Interpretation is difficult at best with all the different products out there. I believe we have argued this point to no end in the past.
 
DanZ said:
I've found the code to be very similar to the Bible. Two people can read one section, and come up with two different interpretations.
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Are you sure you want to go there. :rolleyes:
 
DanZ said:
I've found the code to be very similar to the Bible. Two people can read one section, and come up with two different interpretations.[/QUOTE]

More like two people will come up with 4 or 5 differing interpretations.
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I have been at seminars where members of the same code making panel have been on the code forum and they couldn't agree on the interpertation of a code section in their own article.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Let's see if I can add to this argument. I just got some specs on a Robern Medicine cabinet. In it there is a GFCI Recep. as well as two rocker switches which activate a light in the mirror as well as a defogger for the mirror. It is UL approved and is setup for just one feed. The mirror light and defogger are on the load side of the GFCI. I believe I can tamper with it and add a separate feed for the Recep. :roll: Iknow then I may void the UL listing. What to do, what to do....

Anyway this install seems to support the theory that not all recep. in the bathroom need to be on a 20 amp circuit. Of course, what UL approves does not necessarily relate to the NEC. Also a recep. in the cabinet does not satisfy the required counter recep. which, btw, I have that under control.

Interpretation is difficult at best with all the different products out there. I believe we have argued this point to no end in the past.
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just use 20 amps to supply the cabinet. Who says it has to be 15 just because it has a light and fan?
 
steelersman said:
just use 20 amps to supply the cabinet. Who says it has to be 15 just because it has a light and fan?
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Sure 20 amps but not the 20 amp circut that is already there for the bath recep because this would be a violation. Since I have a 15 amp lighting circuit it would be easier to wire it to the cabinet. I doubt the gfci in the medicine cabinet will ever get used since you cannot store an appliance very easily in the cabinet.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Sure 20 amps but not the 20 amp circut that is already there for the bath recep because this would be a violation. Since I have a 15 amp lighting circuit it would be easier to wire it to the cabinet. I doubt the gfci in the medicine cabinet will ever get used since you cannot store an appliance very easily in the cabinet.
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What about an electric razor? Or a rechargeable toothbrush? Portable curling iron?

The motto I'm trying to get the people I work with to live by: "Do it right the first time, and you never have to worry about it"

edit to add:
I would love to have a receptacle in my medicine cabinet, so I could charge the electric razor that never shaved close enough. I got rid of the toothbrush, the heads were just as expensive as it was.
 
Aside from a hair dryer, 20 amps in the bathroom is not needed. Also some bathrooms may be 200 sq feet and have recpticals located somewhere other than by the vanity. Why require 20 amps for all recpticals in all bathrooms
 
Not in the middle of a 200 square foot bathroom away from the vanity....

In a 30 million dollar home we wired the bathroom had recps other than those at the vanity. Their purpose was for cleaning. Why should that be required to be 20 amps. (It was 20 amp)
 
mikeames said:
In a 30 million dollar home we wired the bathroom had recps other than those at the vanity.
Why should that be required to be 20 amps.
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I don't believe they are.
 
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