Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
- Thread starter eagle
- Start date
- Status
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT HERE!!!!!!!!
Just kidding. (inside joke)
Residential: as many as you can carry on your truck. 220.3(B)(10)
Commercial: 180 va per yoke. 220.3(B)(9)
Roger
[ February 01, 2004, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT HERE!!!!!!!!
Just kidding. (inside joke)
Residential: as many as you can carry on your truck. 220.3(B)(10)
Commercial: 180 va per yoke. 220.3(B)(9)
Roger
[ February 01, 2004, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
The only way to limit the number of receptacle outlets in dwelling units is to look at the square footage served by the branch circuit. At 3 W/SqFt, the area served may not exceed the circuit ampacity. That still doesn't restrict the number of receptacle outlets in a given area but it is a restriction. I am assuming she is looking for some kind of restriction.
You can also take my viewpoint that the inspector is always correct.
Rules:</font>
The only way to limit the number of receptacle outlets in dwelling units is to look at the square footage served by the branch circuit. At 3 W/SqFt, the area served may not exceed the circuit ampacity. That still doesn't restrict the number of receptacle outlets in a given area but it is a restriction. I am assuming she is looking for some kind of restriction.
You can also take my viewpoint that the inspector is always correct.
Rules:</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The inspector is always correct.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If the inspector is found to be wrong, see rule number one.</font>
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
Even so, the ?3 watts per square foot? is a minimum, and is intended to make sure you give the owner enough power for present and future needs. I could design a residence at 30 (or even 300) watts per square foot, if I wanted. I might run afoul of my state?s energy code, and the serving utility might have something to say, and I might lose the job on a competitive bid, but I would not come up against an NEC restriction.
Speaking from the perspective of one who has never had to tell and Inspector that he or she was wrong, and whose job is unlikely to put him in such a position, I am more than willing to suggest that it is OK for someone else to do so.
Even so, the ?3 watts per square foot? is a minimum, and is intended to make sure you give the owner enough power for present and future needs. I could design a residence at 30 (or even 300) watts per square foot, if I wanted. I might run afoul of my state?s energy code, and the serving utility might have something to say, and I might lose the job on a competitive bid, but I would not come up against an NEC restriction.
Speaking from the perspective of one who has never had to tell and Inspector that he or she was wrong, and whose job is unlikely to put him in such a position, I am more than willing to suggest that it is OK for someone else to do so.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
I would hope no electrician would really put 800 sq ft of living area on 1 20 amp circuit.And while not limited i think most stop at 12 to 13 duplex's even thow they could put 20 or 30.Beyond nec we still need to have customers that don't trip breakers every week.
I would hope no electrician would really put 800 sq ft of living area on 1 20 amp circuit.And while not limited i think most stop at 12 to 13 duplex's even thow they could put 20 or 30.Beyond nec we still need to have customers that don't trip breakers every week.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
"I would hope no electrician would really put 800 sq ft of living area on 1 20 amp circuit."
Why not?
There is that much room between me and my TV!
Mike P.
"I would hope no electrician would really put 800 sq ft of living area on 1 20 amp circuit."
Why not?
There is that much room between me and my TV!
Mike P.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
Mike i am curious how many sq ft is the house and how many lighting circuits ?
Mike i am curious how many sq ft is the house and how many lighting circuits ?
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
the inspector said that they knew that there was no limit to the number of receptacles you were allowed. they stated that is is an implied rule(due to examples).
and as pointed out earlier, most electricians i know use the 10,13 receptacle limit and also that there is no limit.
the inspector said that they knew that there was no limit to the number of receptacles you were allowed. they stated that is is an implied rule(due to examples).
and as pointed out earlier, most electricians i know use the 10,13 receptacle limit and also that there is no limit.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
Nothing personal pwhite as you did not say it.
But what the heck is an implied rule?
Nothing personal pwhite as you did not say it.
But what the heck is an implied rule?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
My basic logic is wire the 2 kids bedrooms on 1 circuit and if that was 14-2 i feel i have pushed it to the limit.With teens having own tv,sterio,computer,ceiling fans,games it's as far as i wanta risk them 12 x 12 bedrooms.Master usually has own circuit,family room same.Thats just how i was taught and never had calls over tripping breaker from overloads.
My basic logic is wire the 2 kids bedrooms on 1 circuit and if that was 14-2 i feel i have pushed it to the limit.With teens having own tv,sterio,computer,ceiling fans,games it's as far as i wanta risk them 12 x 12 bedrooms.Master usually has own circuit,family room same.Thats just how i was taught and never had calls over tripping breaker from overloads.
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
Jim, the number of circuits to adequately serve a dwelling and the number of receptacles on these circuits are different subjects.
Lets say you install a circuit per wall in each room, this is fine, but you would be allowed to put as many receptacles on these circuits as the walls would allow, think wall covering of receptacles.
I think the NEC has considered this for safety, if they limited receptacles in a dwelling to a maximum number per circuit, many may go bare minimum circuits and receptacles which could lead to extension cords and daisy chaining power strips. We see this done in many houses now due to the fact people are misunderstanding the "implied rules"
Roger
[ February 02, 2004, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Jim, the number of circuits to adequately serve a dwelling and the number of receptacles on these circuits are different subjects.
Lets say you install a circuit per wall in each room, this is fine, but you would be allowed to put as many receptacles on these circuits as the walls would allow, think wall covering of receptacles.
I think the NEC has considered this for safety, if they limited receptacles in a dwelling to a maximum number per circuit, many may go bare minimum circuits and receptacles which could lead to extension cords and daisy chaining power strips. We see this done in many houses now due to the fact people are misunderstanding the "implied rules"
Roger
[ February 02, 2004, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
I will agree that maybe a large bedroom could have far more receptacles and not increase the wattage used in that room.Just because the room had outlets every 6 foot won't increase load.But we do need to stop and think about a likely load.And if this ends up serving 4 bedrooms we could easily have problems 4 room @12 x12 =576 x 3=1728 watts on 14-2 Yes legal.Would i do it ? Not a chance ,even if they only had 4 receptacles per room and no fan or closet light.I see your point if we used 180va
it would result in something we don't want.So other than common since we have no limits.
I will agree that maybe a large bedroom could have far more receptacles and not increase the wattage used in that room.Just because the room had outlets every 6 foot won't increase load.But we do need to stop and think about a likely load.And if this ends up serving 4 bedrooms we could easily have problems 4 room @12 x12 =576 x 3=1728 watts on 14-2
Yes legal.Would i do it ? Not a chance ,even if they only had 4 receptacles per room and no fan or closet light.I see your point if we used 180vait would result in something we don't want.So other than common since we have no limits.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
Jim
2403sf and there are over 50 circuits. I answered too fast. The distance is half what I stated before.
Mike P.
[ February 03, 2004, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: jxofaltrds ]
Jim
2403sf and there are over 50 circuits. I answered too fast. The distance is half what I stated before.
Mike P.
[ February 03, 2004, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: jxofaltrds ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
Mike I was only asking how many for general lighting,not SA or others.Given 2400 sq ft i would likely have about 6 20 amp or 7 15 amp.The few dollars saved on this would not come close to what a service call would be.NEC should control this by some means.As in my example of 4 bedrooms i think most would agree that doing that would be a poor quality design.As mentioned the idea of using 180 va would not be a good choice,and is not required.
Mike I was only asking how many for general lighting,not SA or others.Given 2400 sq ft i would likely have about 6 20 amp or 7 15 amp.The few dollars saved on this would not come close to what a service call would be.NEC should control this by some means.As in my example of 4 bedrooms i think most would agree that doing that would be a poor quality design.As mentioned the idea of using 180 va would not be a good choice,and is not required.
Re: Allowable # of receptacles per 20 amp
Jim, you're missing the conversation, the number of circuits is not the issue. If it would make you feel better, go ahead and serve this 2400 sq ft dwelling with (30) 20 amp lighting and receptacle circuits over and above the required small appliance and laundry circuits, then put as many receptacles on each of these 30 circuits as you want or can afford, let's start with 50 on each circuit for sake of conversation.
This thread is not about starving a dwelling for circuits.
Roger
Jim, you're missing the conversation, the number of circuits is not the issue. If it would make you feel better, go ahead and serve this 2400 sq ft dwelling with (30) 20 amp lighting and receptacle circuits over and above the required small appliance and laundry circuits, then put as many receptacles on each of these 30 circuits as you want or can afford, let's start with 50 on each circuit for sake of conversation.
This thread is not about starving a dwelling for circuits.
Roger
- Status