Almost bought Chinese GFCIs AGAIN

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readydave8

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
:censored:

A while back (maybe a year or two ago) I stocked up on GFCI's from internet,
thought I was being careful to only buy name brands

When one of the orders came, it was Chinese GFCI's, might have been 50. I thought it was a mistake so went back and looked, nope, that's what I ordered, must have been tired and didn't notice.

Now I know why.

homelectrical.com is advertising Leviton 20 amp for $6.99, but when I click on it, it brings up General Protecht brand.
 
I always stick with my local supplier. Once a blue moon I will buy devices from HD. 99% of the time it is Pass & Seymour from my local supply house.

NEVER that chinese made crap, NEVER.
 
I try and avoid all Chinese products. They don't seem to care if they kill their customers.

Chinese drywall will corrode your pipes and wires (and probably your lungs).
Chinese dog food is full of melamine which fakes out the protein test, but poison's your pets.
Chinese toys coated in lead paint.
Chinese toothpaste full of anti-freeze.

The only Chinese product I buy is Chinese in name only, Chinese takeout made in the USA by Chinese-Americans who I have personally known for many years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_export_recalls
 
I once received what I now call "6C" cable: Cheap Chinese Crap Counterfeit Communications Cable. Fake ETL, ROHS and UL stickers. ofc, I didnt notice any of this at first, my first tip off was the rabbit-pull boxes (2 of them) getting a horrible jam after about 25' of payout. So I open the boxes and find a 50 pack of "RJ-45" (8p8c) plugs and the cheapest, most garbage jack crimping tool I've ever seen, in each box, along with a datacom circuit tester and remote. :?

I check the order, nope, I didnt order those items.

I Google the cable mfg and part #s, and the results were ugly. They were also fake CMR, having failed a flame spread test. ALL of the markings were fake/fraudulent.

This was back in 2008 when scrap copper prices were pretty high. I took both boxes to a local (around the corner) scrapyard, and my assistant and I ate lunch with the proceeds. After lunch, I called the contractor for whom we were working and had a not-so friendly conversation with him, for ordering garbage cable and setting us back yet another day on that project.

*The datacom testers were actually pretty cool to have since, inexplicably, they had factory BNC connections in addition to the 8p8c. Were useful in testing continuity in siamese cable.
 
Coppersmith said:
Chinese dog food is full of melamine which fakes out the protein test, but poison's your pets.
Click to expand...
well, better get a better tester ;)
some MIM stuff is bad, lots of MIC stuff is bad. iron sewer covers are MII (its cheaper to ship iron slugs then it is to cast in US !)

why china so much? ez. think about harbor freight, aka "china retail with US lipstick". take a $20 drill. now look closely, the item was made on other side of world, shipped to a US port, transported to a HF store, and sold to you for just $20. now, open your wallet, take out a $20, now lets see how far you can travel for $20. its that crazy economy diff why MIC clones of stuff is a big biz for china. and sometimes, its not a US person fault, not fault of the guy who bought your stuff that was bad, supply chains can be infiltrated and real to-spec MIC stuff is mixed with the bad MIC stuff. so when ACE hardware orders UL listed name brand gray plastic boxes, who knows what it really is.
 
There are good and bad products from China and/or products that have components that came from China.

It is a little hard to just go buy consumer products and not run into at least some components that passed through China in one way or another.

Take Legrand - the parent company of P&S who makes GFCI's. They are a North American company, but that don't mean they don't possibly have production in other countries or purchase raw goods or components that were made or processed in other countries.

They can still buy something from China with specifications they set.
 
kwired said:
There are good and bad products from China and/or products that have components that came from China.

It is a little hard to just go buy consumer products and not run into at least some components that passed through China in one way or another.

Take Legrand - the parent company of P&S who makes GFCI's. They are a North American company, but that don't mean they don't possibly have production in other countries or purchase raw goods or components that were made or processed in other countries.

They can still buy something from China with specifications they set.
Click to expand...

At least P&S has a better QC on their stuff and are a reliable company even though their stuff is most probably made over seas.
 
I remember when 'Made in Japan' meant low priced poor quality goods. Now 'Made in Japan' is almost as good as 'Made in Germany'. I have had lots of problems with MIC stuff I bought here in the US, but just recently I had to order a small 12 volt relay board from China for a project and the quality is amazing. I was very impressed.
 
Stuff made in China for American companies usually is not that bad because the American companies police what they are getting. It's the stuff made in China for Chinese companies that you have to worry about. There appears to be a total lack of morals by these companies. They will sell you a deadly product without a thought. I'm painting with a broad brush, but time and experience have proved me right.
 
kwired said:
There are good and bad products from China and/or products that have components that came from China.

It is a little hard to just go buy consumer products and not run into at least some components that passed through China in one way or another.

Take Legrand - the parent company of P&S who makes GFCI's. They are a North American company, but that don't mean they don't possibly have production in other countries or purchase raw goods or components that were made or processed in other countries.

They can still buy something from China with specifications they set.
Click to expand...

LeGrand is a French company.
 
I paid the price years ago with MIC GFCI's. They began failing at an unrealistic rate and the Florida based internet company I bought them from wouldn't stand behind them (I ended up filing a complaint with the Consumer Product Safety Commission). They insisted that I wired them incorrectly. In addition they wanted me to return them at my own expense. My last go-around was with Barnett Supply who also would not stand behind the product they sell so I'm through with the cheap internet companies and MIC products.

I'd just like to share something with everyone. Years ago, before I became an EC, I worked for a furniture company that imported wicker and rattan furniture from China. The way things worked was that you placed an order for products (let's say outdoor painted furniture) and payment had to be made via letter of credit. As soon as the ship left China the manufacturers were paid. When you got the products here in the US and if they came in poorly made or poorly painted you had two choices; a)You could file a complaint through the Chinese Consulate and try to get back at least some of your money or b) you can try to sell them (retail) at a severe discount and try to get back some of your money that way.

The whole point is that the Chinese are dumping junk on our markets (like CD's, solar panels, circuit breakers and GFCI receptacles to name a few) and getting unsuspecting people (like us) to buy them with the lure of a cheap price. Perhaps when the general US public comes to the realization that they are being suckered into this scheme and they stop buying these products, maybe then the Chinese will come around and produce better products like Japan has. Until then, if we keep buying the crap they'll keep sending it.
 
goldstar said:
Perhaps when the general US public comes to the realization that they are being suckered into this scheme and they stop buying these products, maybe then the Chinese will come around and produce better products like Japan has. Until then, if we keep buying the crap they'll keep sending it.
Click to expand...

poorly manufactured "durable" goods are a problem only if you want
something for nothing.

i went looking for an ultrasonic cleaner. you can get them really cheap
in a lot of places. $50 ish. do they work? sorta.

if you take the time to research what is good, you end up with something
like this....

Crest 3/4 Gallon CP230D Ultrasonic Heated Cleaner

US made, high strength transducers, advanced controls.

and the price everywhere is $640. no discounts. is it worth it?
you pay your money and take your choice.

there's an order of magnatude difference between good and garbage.
most folks buy cheap stuff. it is what it is.
 
Fulthrotl said:
i went looking for an ultrasonic cleaner. you can get them really cheap
in a lot of places. $50 ish. do they work? sorta.
Click to expand...
and the price everywhere is $640. no discounts. is it worth it?
you pay your money and take your choice...........there's an order of magnatude difference between good and garbage.
most folks buy cheap stuff. it is what it is.
Click to expand...
The lure comes when our American manufacturing companies try to make up for all their R&D expenses up front and charge an excessive amount of $$. Is a GFCI receptacle worth $15 or $20 ? If you're just installing just one in a residence you go ahead and pay the price. If you're installing hundreds in multi-unit apartments the lure of $5 MIC GFCI receptacles becomes more attractive.

Now, if you look at a company like Greenlee who wants $600+ for their hydraulic punch set and Hilti who wants $900+ for their hammer drills the lure of Harbor Freight selling hydraulic punch sets for $100 and SDS hammer drills for $65 comes into play. You have a choice to make. If you're a busy EC who does a lot of commercial and industrial work and you use those MIC products on a regular basis they probably won't hold up. By the same token, expensive products like Greenlee and Hilti have a tendency to "disappear" on job sites.

I have an SDS hammer drill that I bought on Ebay for $65 about 10 years ago. It's done the job for me over the years and in all probability no one is going to steal it. If they do - who cares ? I also have a $100 Harbor Freight hydraulic punch set. The dies are very sharp but I don't use it that often. I spent more on the Greenlee ratchet punch set.

My whole point is that we all want to buy American as long as the price disparity isn't way out of whack.
 
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