Aluminum Feeders

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Jimmy7

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Boston, MA
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Electrician
I'm involved in the design phase of a six story building that is going to be used for assisted living. In order to implement some cost savings, there has been a lot of talk about using aluminum feeders. Could I please have your opinion on the use of aluminum feeders for a building such as this.
 
If a conductor needs to be 4 AWG or larger aluminum has always gotten consideration for longer runs for me.
 
Jimmy7 said:
I'm involved in the design phase of a six story building that is going to be used for assisted living. In order to implement some cost savings, there has been a lot of talk about using aluminum feeders. Could I please have your opinion on the use of aluminum feeders for a building such as this.
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The aluminum that is used today is not the same as the aluminum used years ago. In fact, the aluminum oxide is not required on the new material. Old habits for me die hard so I still use the compound.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The aluminum that is used today is not the same as the aluminum used years ago. In fact, the aluminum oxide is not required on the new material. Old habits for me die hard so I still use the compound.
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Think you meant anti-oxidation compounds. Aluminum oxide it what you are trying to avoid with them.

Alloys used for the past 30ish years don't require use of these compounds. You may possibly find some straight USE cable or some aerial cables that are not made of said alloys, but anything listed for use inside buildings is going to be one those newer alloys.
 
FWIW we Brits don't, as a rule, use aluminium (or aluminum),. The one exception for us was anodising projects. These are from 10kA to 70kA.
 
In the past year copper wire has dropped from its highs but Aluminum has more than quadrupled in price. All conduits/raceways have also gone up in price substantially in the past year. With the higher cost of the aluminum wire and if it requires the raceway to be increased in size the savings are not near as much as they were.
 
I just about never use CU in sizes over #3-ish. When I hear about people using copper for big long feeders, I always wonder if the person writing the checks was told the cost difference and given the option, I assume not.
 
I just pulled up a job from last June.
400 CU THHN/THWN was 13.25 per foot. Its now $12.12 per foot. Slight decrease.
3/0 AL XHHW was $.57 per foot. Its now $2.21 per foot

Also looked at some AL SER prices from mid last year.
1/0-3 was $1.51. Its now $5.04
6/3 was $.65. Its now $2.15
 
curt swartz said:
I just pulled up a job from last June.
400 CU THHN/THWN was 13.25 per foot. Its now $12.12 per foot. Slight decrease.
3/0 AL XHHW was $.57 per foot. Its now $2.21 per foot

Also looked at some AL SER prices from mid last year.
1/0-3 was $1.51. Its now $5.04
6/3 was $.65. Its now $2.15
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Granted prices are volatile, but those aluminum prices seem a/ high. From 3 months ago, I have the following:

300MCM XHHW AL , $1.82
#2 XHHW AL, $.45
4/0 AL, $1.13
250-4 AL MC cable, $8.83
4/0-4 AL MC cable, $5.68
 
electrofelon said:
Granted prices are volatile, but those aluminum prices seem a/ high. From 3 months ago, I have the following:

300MCM XHHW AL , $1.82
#2 XHHW AL, $.45
4/0 AL, $1.13
250-4 AL MC cable, $8.83
4/0-4 AL MC cable, $5.68
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I'm basing my current prices on what my suppliers show online for my account. Usually my wire pricing is loaded so is correct. I would have to call my sales people to confirm.

I just checked my 2 primary suppliers and prices are within a few cents of each other.
#2 AL XHHW $.98
4/0 AL XHHW $2.48
300 AL XHHW $4.16

I don't have pricing on feeder MC since it's not a stocked item in my area.
 
How much price increase is in metals (both copper and aluminum) and how much is in plastics used for insulation? PVC conduit is horrible price compared to couple years ago well beyond the ~7 percent inflation rate the news media keeps talking about.
 
The only disadvantage of AL is the coefficient of friction of xhhw is more than THHN, and aluminum is usually xhhw. Many times for longer runs, I order in aluminum THHN colors which are readily available.

For pulling large MC cable more hands are definitely a big plus. I once pulled two parallel runs of 2/0-4 MC across a warehouse, it wasn't too horrible, but there wasn't a lot I had to pull it through or around. Coming up I've got to pull two parallel runs of 250-4 through one building and across the ceiling of another building. I do have one helper there, but it still won't be super happy fun time. I have a few of those greenlee roller pulleys, that's a good idea, those will probably help a lot.
 
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