Aluminum wire on residential branch circuits

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Riograndeelectric

Senior Member
Location
Lakewood Colorado
When dealing with Aluminum wire for 15 & 20 amp branch circuits would you
(A) Pigtail new copper rated devices using 1 of the approved methods of pig tailing
(B) Replace existing devices with CO/AL rated devices and then not have to worry about trying to shove the extra splices into already packed boxes.

IMHO, I believe I would use CO/AL devices and forgot about the pig tailing.
In the past, I have pigtailed and used Copper rated devices but then trying to shove the extra splices in the boxes was a nightmare.

I am really wondering if pigtails are that much safer than just replacing devices with CO/AL rated devices
 
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Jesse7623

Senior Member
Location
eastern Mass
It can prove to be very difficult to work with small AL wire.wire nuts as well as direct attachment to the device can be almost impossible without breaking the conductor.So one technique my boss found to work quite well was to rewire the whole house.LOL...Just kidding...push-in connectors work great for pigtail attachment.
 
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Riograndeelectric

Senior Member
Location
Lakewood Colorado
ceknight said:
http://kinginnovation.com/products/alumiconn.html
Click to expand...

I have used these in the past and think they are much better than the purple wire nuts however try pig tailing and trying to put a GFCI back in the box with a couple of #10 NM cables.
This is why I am leaning towards not pig tailing and using CO/AL devices.
I think pig tailing just makes for another connection that could fail down the road
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
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Riograndeelectric said:
Agreed but I was merely saying that I like king innovations Alumi Conn.

I see that the cpsc has approved the use of Alumni conn as an approved alternative for Pig tailing. About time. I think that Tyco/ Amp had cornered the market on having the only approved method
Click to expand...

the tyco solution is a swaged connection, this is a set screw.... :-/

the cost of these, when i checked, was about a buck a shot.
most of that, i suspect is for the inevitable necessity of legal defenses
where aluminum house wiring is concerned... :-<

i've got a house i have to look see tomorrow, if i get the chance.
about a third of the plugs don't work. type 1 aluminum, circa 1974.
 
bradleyelectric

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
Riograndeelectric said:
I have used these in the past and think they are much better than the purple wire nuts however try pig tailing and trying to put a GFCI back in the box with a couple of #10 NM cables.
This is why I am leaning towards not pig tailing and using CO/AL devices.
I think pig tailing just makes for another connection that could fail down the road
Click to expand...

I've never seen a COLAR GFCI. Have you?
 
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enosez

Member
When pigtailing we would try to replace the box to an extra deep box for the extra space. Most of the time it works well for us.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
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Riograndeelectric said:
Agreed but I was merely saying that I like king innovations Alumi Conn.

I see that the cpsc has approved the use of Alumni conn as an approved alternative for Pig tailing. About time. I think that Tyco/ Amp had cornered the market on having the only approved method
Click to expand...

i agree with your feelings on the subject, but i suspect tyco isn't the big evil
controlling market cornering meanie on this.

i suspect that nobody else wanted to touch the liability.:D

when i was looking at getting the tyco certification to do this, and spoke to
their national director of this program, there was some question if tyco was
even going to continue making this product in small sizes, as it was a lot of
liability for a small return. that's why i didn't pursue it further. i'm not spendiing
$2k for the certification, and $100 a week to lease the crimper, without
a firm commitment of ongoing support.

from the tyco website, i looked at the listed contractors who do this, and they are
almost nonexistent....

there is just a bucketload of problems to doing this repair. if i was going to
do it, i'd up my general liability to $5 million, and add latent defects, and errors
and omissions insurance to boot.

that policy would have to continue for 10 year after i did my last aluminum
house wire refit.... :-( and you provide a warranty certification for the house,
and you cannot have any employees doing the tyco repair, unless they are
certified by tyco.

and the cost of the repair normally is between 4 and 5 k, and selling that
to a homeowner is a tough sell, when they can get a muppet with magic
wirenuts to show up from craigslist, fix it for $200, and slam his trunk on the
way out the driveway... :D
 
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Riograndeelectric

Senior Member
Location
Lakewood Colorado
Good reply. I agree that the trunk slammer packed with a trunk full of purple twister wire nuts will sell the job dirt-cheap and not even blink an eye when they are not done nor even pull a permit to have the job inspected.

I have done a couple of pigtail jobs using the Alumi Conn connector, Homeowner only wanted her bedroom pigtailed and left the rest of house wiring alone. I worry any time I work on Aluminum wire at the risk of a fire down the road. I also looked into the Tyco certification but the cost of certification was crazy along with the leasing fee on the tool , from what I heard the suppliers do not have many of the crimpers to lease out. The return on the investment would not be good. Do most of you avoid the Aluminum pigtail jobs?
I have passed up a couple complete Aluminum pigtail jobs because I did not feel comfortable pig tailing using Purple twister nuts.
 
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Riograndeelectric

Senior Member
Location
Lakewood Colorado
ok so what would eb the popular consenus on Aluminum wire?
given the choice would you pigtail and replace devices with copper rated devies or simply just replace the devices using COALR rated devices.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Riograndeelectric said:
ok so what would eb the popular consenus on Aluminum wire?
given the choice would you pigtail and replace devices with copper rated devies or simply just replace the devices using COALR rated devices.
Click to expand...
You need to know the exact type of aluminum conductor that was used. A new alloy came into the market in 1973 or 1974. I would have no issue with using CO/ALR devices with the new alloy. I would look at pigtails if it was the older alloy and would try to replace any of the old alloy that feeds high current circuits like kitchens, bathrooms, or electric heat.
 
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