Aluminum Wire
- Thread starter bennie
- Start date
- Status
curt swartz
Senior Member
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Aluminum Wire
Bennie, since this question is coming from you I'm sure its a trick question but I'll give an answer anyway. Based on Article 310 "Conductors For General Wiring" Table 310.5 it would be 12AWG.
Bennie, since this question is coming from you I'm sure its a trick question but I'll give an answer anyway. Based on Article 310 "Conductors For General Wiring" Table 310.5 it would be 12AWG.
Re: Aluminum Wire
Bennie, I think #6 is the smallest availlable now. I did say I think
I know it's the smallest I have ever installed, like others, I have worked on older houses and even mobile homes wired with #12 AL, that is a real scarry thought.
Roger
Bennie, I think #6 is the smallest availlable now. I did say I think
I know it's the smallest I have ever installed, like others, I have worked on older houses and even mobile homes wired with #12 AL, that is a real scarry thought.
Roger
curt swartz
Senior Member
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Aluminum Wire
Hi Bennie
The code allows it but I don't know of any manufactures that still make AL type NM. If you found an old roll it would not meet current code since it would only have 60C conductors and all type NM cable is now required to have 90C conductors (NM-B). At a $1.50 each for the CU/AL Idea Twisters it would be extremely expensive to use AL instead of CU. #8 and larger SER cable is still widely available and frequently used.
Hi Bennie
The code allows it but I don't know of any manufactures that still make AL type NM. If you found an old roll it would not meet current code since it would only have 60C conductors and all type NM cable is now required to have 90C conductors (NM-B). At a $1.50 each for the CU/AL Idea Twisters it would be extremely expensive to use AL instead of CU. #8 and larger SER cable is still widely available and frequently used.
frenchelectrican
Senior Member
- Location
- Nord'est Wisconsin et Paris France
Re: Aluminum Wire
the smallest size for aluminume wire is # 8 i use that for specal useage but that is very rare i use it anymore but for general service conducters i use anything bigger than #6 but i allready aknowaged about #12 alum wires and i did see it not too long ago when i replace breaker box on one of the mobile home it was pain in the butt and end up replace alot of outlets too to be on safe side and volia! i found more than half are shot with alum wires and one device was not approve with alum wires that was spooky there
merci marc
the smallest size for aluminume wire is # 8 i use that for specal useage but that is very rare i use it anymore but for general service conducters i use anything bigger than #6 but i allready aknowaged about #12 alum wires and i did see it not too long ago when i replace breaker box on one of the mobile home it was pain in the butt and end up replace alot of outlets too to be on safe side and volia! i found more than half are shot with alum wires and one device was not approve with alum wires that was spooky there
merci marc
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Aluminum Wire
Bennie,
Why wouldn't small aluminum conductors be permitted? It does have a bad reputation because of the problems with the smaller sizes before the mid 70s. Because of this reputation, there is no market for the small sizes and no one is making it at this time. The serious problem with burning connections on the older aluminum wire was solved in the mid seventies when a new aluminum alloy was used for the conductors and CO/ALR devices come onto the market. Installations made with the new alloy conductor and the CO/ALR devices experience no more problems than the equivalent copper installation.
Don
Bennie,
Why wouldn't small aluminum conductors be permitted? It does have a bad reputation because of the problems with the smaller sizes before the mid 70s. Because of this reputation, there is no market for the small sizes and no one is making it at this time. The serious problem with burning connections on the older aluminum wire was solved in the mid seventies when a new aluminum alloy was used for the conductors and CO/ALR devices come onto the market. Installations made with the new alloy conductor and the CO/ALR devices experience no more problems than the equivalent copper installation.
Don
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Aluminum Wire
Don
Don
Then how come it seems that I get more service calls on failed aluminum service conections than on copper and this includes the aluminum busses in alot of new panels out there today don't they use the newer alloys in these places?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Aluminum Wire
Wayne,
Are the service connections that fail outside?
Aluminum and water still don't mix well. As far as the buss damage, I don't know, except aluminum is not a tolerant to contamination as is copper.
don
Wayne,
Are the service connections that fail outside?
Aluminum and water still don't mix well. As far as the buss damage, I don't know, except aluminum is not a tolerant to contamination as is copper.
don
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Aluminum Wire
Yes most are outside and no-lox would of prevented the problems (of course when properly installed any aluminum wire is safe) But I have seen a few that were inside a house and the problem is where most install a panel, right in the same location of the washer & dryer, more moisture go figure.
But as for the busses in breaker panels over time I have become less fond of the aluminum buss as I have seen many failures where the breakers stab on the buss usely with breakers above 30 amps but have had a few 20 amp ones burn the buss too. of course this could be atribited to moisture humitity in the air but with the new alloy it shouldnt be a problem.
and short of replaceing the panel no-lox is the only way I have found to fix the problem just a little dab in the breaker slots does it.
When I was told that no-lox was not allowed for this I called Ideal and they told me it is listed for any aluminum electrical connection that needs protection from moisture. and it works have yet to have one of these connections fail after the applacation of no-lox. Great for underground repairs too, battery post on your car, many things that needs protection from moisture.
Yes most are outside and no-lox would of prevented the problems (of course when properly installed any aluminum wire is safe) But I have seen a few that were inside a house and the problem is where most install a panel, right in the same location of the washer & dryer, more moisture go figure.
But as for the busses in breaker panels over time I have become less fond of the aluminum buss as I have seen many failures where the breakers stab on the buss usely with breakers above 30 amps but have had a few 20 amp ones burn the buss too. of course this could be atribited to moisture humitity in the air but with the new alloy it shouldnt be a problem.
and short of replaceing the panel no-lox is the only way I have found to fix the problem just a little dab in the breaker slots does it.
When I was told that no-lox was not allowed for this I called Ideal and they told me it is listed for any aluminum electrical connection that needs protection from moisture. and it works have yet to have one of these connections fail after the applacation of no-lox. Great for underground repairs too, battery post on your car, many things that needs protection from moisture.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Aluminum Wire
Wayne,
Don
Wayne,
I have seen this too, but most times there was evidence of paint overspray or other contanimatin on the buss stabs. This problem was one of the reasons that 110.12(C) was put into the code in the '93 code cycle. I have also read that you can't use any type of anti-oxident compound on the buss stabs, but like you, have seen it work.
Don
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The same thing can and has happened with copper.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
This thread was started over three years ago by a member who has since passed away. Let's not restart discussions on threads that old. I am closing this thread. If you want to ask questions about the aluminum wires involved in the fire you are describing, please start a new thread.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Wow, kinda of strange to come home and see a thread up that was started by Bennie.
Bennie left a long lasting impression on me, he was a good man.
Bennie left a long lasting impression on me, he was a good man.
- Status