Aluminum wiring

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bluecollar84

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What does the NEC code say about existing aluminum wiring 20amp 12 gauge ? Does it have to be removed if found ? Can I add to that circuit with copper using special lug nuts ? I have to add an outlet off existing aluminum wiring . What are your thoughts or do I have to run a new branch circuit ?


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bluecollar84 said:
What does the NEC code say about existing aluminum wiring 20amp 12 gauge ? Does it have to be removed if found ? Can I add to that circuit with copper using special lug nuts ? I have to add an outlet off existing aluminum wiring . What are your thoughts or do I have to run a new branch circuit ?


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the code does not say anything about it at all.

you can connect copper conductors to the existing aluminum wire for the new receptacle, as long as it is done in an appropriate way.

or you can run a new copper circuit in place of the aluminum wires, either leaving the existing aluminum conductors in place or removing them.
 
BUT ... with aluminum 12 AWG was for 15 amp circuits, 10 AWG for 20 amp circuits. If he has 12 on a 20, change the fuse or breaker.
 
peter d said:
It's highly unsafe when it's terminated improperly and the wrong wiring devices are used. However, the market now has reliable products to deal with both of those issues.
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I get this question A LOT. It's not the wire that's unsafe, it's the terminations. Devices or wire connectors not listed for use with aluminum or tying AL and CU together. I know the Ideal purple wirenuts are listed to do that but I've seen too many fail due to the AL and CU touching. Get yourself some AlumiConn connectors and a tourque screwdriver. :thumbsup:
 
MNSparky said:
I get this question A LOT. It's not the wire that's unsafe, it's the terminations. Devices or wire connectors not listed for use with aluminum or tying AL and CU together. I know the Ideal purple wirenuts are listed to do that but I've seen too many fail due to the AL and CU touching. Get yourself some AlumiConn connectors and a tourque screwdriver. :thumbsup:
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Mike,

As a percentage, how many Ideal Purples have you seen fail? I hear this issue a lot, but the product is designed for that purpose. :?
 
peter d said:
Mike,

As a percentage, how many Ideal Purples have you seen fail? I hear this issue a lot, but the product is designed for that purpose. :?
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Jerry, I have personally removed maybe 20 purples that showed signs of heat buildup and distortion. That's about 5-8% of the purples I've come across in the field I would guess. On the other hand I have removed like 250+ regular nuts that were melted and distorted. We as a company have installed probably around 1000 AlumiConns and I have yet to get a call back or find one that has failed. They are spendy, but way cheaper than COPALUM crimping. I'm a believer!:thumbsup:
 
MNSparky said:
Jerry, I have personally removed maybe 20 purples that showed signs of heat buildup and distortion. On the other hand I have removed like 250+ regular nuts that were melted and distorted. We as a company have installed probably around 1000 AlumiConns and I have yet to get a call back or find one that has failed. They are spendy, but way cheaper than COPALUM crimping. I'm a believer!:thumbsup:
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:thumbsup:

I've only seen AL NM cable twice in my life, and CU clad AL once. Thankfully it's extremely rare here so we don't have a need to deal with it much.
 
peter d said:
:thumbsup:

I've only seen AL NM cable twice in my life, and CU clad AL once. Thankfully it's extremely rare here so we don't have a need to deal with it much.
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I'll see the AL NM maybe once every couple weeks here. What's really rare are the houses wire in flex with AL THWN. I've only seen 3 or 4 houses like that. We completely re-wired one with CU in 3 days with no rock cutting.

I found it to be a good little niche here that no one else wants to do. We make good money going through a house and redoing the connections with AlumiConns.
 
MNSparky said:
I'll see the AL NM maybe once every couple weeks here. What's really rare are the houses wire in flex with AL THWN. I've only seen 3 or 4 houses like that. We completely re-wired one with CU in 3 days with no rock cutting.
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Sounds like someone ventured up from Chicago to wire that one. :lol:
 
bluecollar84 said:
I thought aluminum house wiring was unsafe?


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Aluminum wiring got a bad rep back in the 70's when some fires were attributed to it, but since then the wire manufacturers have been using alloyed aluminum whose coefficients of thermal expansion much more closely matches that of copper. The previous mismatch of coefficients was responsible for some series arc faults, but now the hazard has been ameliorated as long as you use terminals that are aluminum or dual copper and aluminum rated.
 
ggunn said:
Aluminum wiring got a bad rep back in the 70's when some fires were attributed to it, but since then the wire manufacturers have been using alloyed aluminum whose coefficients of thermal expansion much more closely matches that of copper. The previous mismatch of coefficients was responsible for some series arc faults, but now the hazard has been ameliorated as long as you use terminals that are aluminum or dual copper and aluminum rated.
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But even those terminations will perform better with the newer wire alloy.
They should work with the old stuff, but workmanship in installation is even more important then.

You may also see terminations that are rated for Cu or Cu-clad Al only. Not for use with straight Al.
 
bluecollar84 said:
What does the NEC code say about existing aluminum wiring 20amp 12 gauge ? Does it have to be removed if found ? Can I add to that circuit with copper using special lug nuts ? I have to add an outlet off existing aluminum wiring . What are your thoughts or do I have to run a new branch circuit ?
Click to expand...


If possible I try never to add anything to a circuit wired with AL. Sure it's legal to do so but may end up with more trouble than running a new circuit.

To be honest in this area there is not much Al left or there wasn't that much to start with ( don't know which ).
 
GoldDigger said:
But even those terminations will perform better with the newer wire alloy.
They should work with the old stuff, but workmanship in installation is even more important then.

You may also see terminations that are rated for Cu or Cu-clad Al only. Not for use with straight Al.
Click to expand...
I intended for my comments to be a Boolean AND, i.e., use newer wire AND use Al rated terminals.
 
MNSparky said:
I get this question A LOT. It's not the wire that's unsafe, it's the terminations. Devices or wire connectors not listed for use with aluminum or tying AL and CU together. I know the Ideal purple wirenuts are listed to do that but I've seen too many fail due to the AL and CU touching. Get yourself some AlumiConn connectors and a tourque screwdriver. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Anyone had issues with box fill when using alumicons? Some of the older homes here in FL has the small metal boxes and it's pretty tough to get three alumicons to fit especially if you have to install a gfi with them.
 
1haz said:
Anyone had issues with box fill when using alumicons? Some of the older homes here in FL has the small metal boxes and it's pretty tough to get three alumicons to fit especially if you have to install a gfi with them.
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Yes, that's a big problem. I usually include time and materials in my quotes to change out some boxes if need be. We also end up doing larger J-boxes in the attic and unfinished areas sometimes. You get really good at laying everything flat and neat in the back of a box when using them!
 
1haz said:
Anyone had issues with box fill when using alumicons? Some of the older homes here in FL has the small metal boxes and it's pretty tough to get three alumicons to fit especially if you have to install a gfi with them.
Click to expand...

maybe the answer is to use the existing box as a jbox by adding a cover and put the device in a box next to it using one of the boxes designed for installation in existing walls. paint the cover and it is barely noticeable.
 
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