Am I getting carried away? ATS installation

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WSB123

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I have installed several standby generators. In most cases in my area there is no inspection required for generator installations; however, that does not change the way I perform my work. I am committed to meeting or exceeding code regardless of an inspection. My question is: Am I getting carried away when it comes to installing the ATS?
Many generator units are sold as a package which will include a 200 amp service rated ATS. Essentially, I am introducing a disconnect into and existing service which many cases is fed with SEU cable straight from the meter base. In these cases I remove the SEU, install SER and separate the neutral and ground wires in the electrical panel. Once that is done, I do not want to have a 4-wire service with 3-wire branch circuits (ie; dryer, range). Do I continue on with this process and rewire those appliances, too? I want to provide the safest and most code compliant installation, but I don't want to add unnecessary expense to the home owner when they just want a simple generator installed.
So, do you go through all of this effort, or do you just see the ATS as a means of connection for the generator to the existing panel and leave things be? I do not see how you can install a service rated ATS and not upgrade to SER - and then the above listed branch circuits.
Thank you in advance to whomever can be of assistance.
 
You have to use SER from the ATS to the panel. I see no reason to rewire the dryer or range. It is still a safe install.

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windingelectric said:
You have to use SER from the ATS to the panel. I see no reason to rewire the dryer or range. It is still a safe install.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
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But, if you keep those appliances as a 3-wire you are back to using the neutral conductor as grounding conductor.
 
packersparky said:
Which may have been allowed when the appliances were installed. I would not run new circuits to the appliances.
Click to expand...

Neither would I.

Who's gonna buy the new cords for the range and dryer? Who's gonna pull them out and change them?
Just an added expense for your customer.
But, I would leave it up to them.
 
packersparky said:
Which may have been allowed when the appliances were installed. I would not run new circuits to the appliances.
Click to expand...

As far back as i ca remember SE cable was only allowed for dryer and ranges when the branch circuit originated at the service.

I seriously doubt you will find a code compliant way to supply a three wire branch circuit to a range or dryer from a panel that is four wire feed secondary to the service panel

The correct installation would be to re-feed these appliances with a four wire branch circuit
for the dryer and ranges when the branch circuit originates at a panel down stream from the service.
 
packersparky said:
Which may have been allowed when the appliances were installed. I would not run new circuits to the appliances.
Click to expand...

It is true that 3-wire was allowed at the time, but if I have altered the panel to a 4-wire system I can't see how those wires could remain. If I keep them I have taken the incoming 3-wire service (meter to disconnect), and converted it to a 4-wire (disconnect to panel) then back to a 3-wire supply on the 120/240 circuits.
As I stated in my title for this thread, I am not wanting to get "carried away", but I do want the circuit right and safe.
 
In the installation you described the panel that these devices originate has become a subpanel and is no longer code compliant. You are correct in rewiring them.

250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers. Frames
of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted
cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes
that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be
connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the
manner specified by 250.134 or 250.138.
Exception: For existing branch-circuit installations only
where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in
the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges,
wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units,
clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of
the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be
connected to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following
conditions are met.
(1) The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire;
or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wyeconnected
system.
(2) The grounded conductor is not smaller than 10 AWG
copper or 8 AWG aluminum.
(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded
conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE serviceentrance
cable and the branch circuit originates at the
service equipment.
(4) Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of
the equipment are bonded to the equipment.
 
RICK NAPIER said:
In the installation you described the panel that these devices originate has become a subpanel and is no longer code compliant. You are correct in rewiring them.

250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers. Frames
of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted
cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes
that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be
connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the
manner specified by 250.134 or 250.138.
Exception: For existing branch-circuit installations only
where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in
the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges,
wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units,
clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of
the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be
connected to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following
conditions are met.
(1) The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire;
or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wyeconnected
system.
(2) The grounded conductor is not smaller than 10 AWG
copper or 8 AWG aluminum.
(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded
conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE serviceentrance
cable and the branch circuit originates at the
service equipment.
(4) Grounding contacts of receptacles furnished as part of
the equipment are bonded to the equipment.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this response. Exactly what I needed.
 
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