Amp safety.

[dondosae1]

I have read a couple of pages on the board and have not been able to find anything so I will give this a shot. I know you shouldn't always trust what you "read" on the net, but there seems to be some knowledgable people posting here.

I recently bought a home. Upon the home inspection, the inspector said: 1. house had 100 amp service 2. 2-prong outlets in the home and 3. I should have a PROFESSIONAL come in and look into upgrading my service.

I hired an electrician for an estimate. It was at that time I was told that the home had 60 amp service and in all likely hood to get updated 3-prong outlets, it would require a re-wire job.

The sellers agent, then called the city inspector to come in and check it out and he (city inspector) said in WRITING that the home had 100 amp service.

I hired another electrician to come in and bid the job. AGAIN, the electrician told me it was 60 amp service. He also said, while the home may have 100 amps coming in, the fuse box (as old homes have) only can protect 60 amps.

Who am I to believe? I bought the home under the assumption it was 100 amp service? As I understand there are major safety issues with only a 60 amp service with 2-prong outlets. Obviously, personal safety as well as protecting my a/v equipment.

In my case, is this truly 100 amp service eventhough my fuse box is wired for only 60 amps? Any suggestions or possibly any ideas (websites) I can go would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[charlie]

Re: Amp safety.

This NEC? Forum is for those in the electrical and related industries. Questions of a "How-To" nature by persons not involved in the electrical industry will be removed without notice. With the type of questions you are asking, you are indeed welcome.

Your inspector or electricians may not have looked as closely as they should have and missed something. If the service is an old 60/40 fuse panel, it will look like an old 60 ampere service when it is actually a 100 ampere service.

In my opinion, it should still be replaced since it is very old. Additionally, I would consider a complete rewire because the Code has changed so much and you have an antiquated system.

Do not stop with a single electrical contractor but ask three or four for their opinion and a bid. If one is excessively high or low, throw it out and go with the one you feel the most comfortable with.

Lastly, there are a lot of very good and experienced electricians here that will have very good opinions. You will get other suggestions from them, listen to them.

Best to you, Charlie

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Amp safety.

One thing first--unless some other entity (insurance company, mortgage company, building department) is forcing you to do so, you do not have to upgrade the wiring in your home.

You might hear your neighbors bragging about their new 200 amp services, and get "amp-envy", but 60 or 100 amps might be sufficient for your needs. Bigger is better, but not always an absolute necessity.

If you look closely around your meter, or inside the house close to it, you should find a box with a breaker or set of fuses in it that turns off the entire house. The breaker might be in a panel that has breakers that shut off individual circuits, as well.

When you find that breaker, or set of fuses, read the numbers on that device. Given the confusing information that you've been getting, try to see if you can see the printing on the conductors that are attached to it.

At some point in the history of the house, someone may have had problems with a 60 amp breaker tripping, because the load was too great. That might prompt someone to illegally swap out the breaker with one rated for higher amps than is safe.

It sounds to me as though the home inspector saw a 100 amp breaker, and assumed it was a 100 amp service. The keen eye of the electrician might have seen the rating label on the disconnect, or the size of the wires connected to it, and realized it was a 60 amp service with an illegally large breaker in it.

I hope this helps. Feel free to post here with any further questions on this matter. Just refrain from asking how to swap it out yourself.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Amp safety.

I type slow, I thought I was first.

 

[dondosae1]

Re: Amp safety.

Thank you for your opinions. As you can imagine, my head is spinning with all of this.

I just don't feel comfortable in a house with only 60 amps of service. I would like to upgrade my service at the very least to 100 amps. The former owner basically had one tv, no computer, one fridge, etc. There will be atleast 4 tvs, 2-3 fridges, computer, etc. I guess I don't want to risk anything.

I could not be present when the city inspector was there, but I have been there when both electricians have come to estimate. The actual box, on the cover, say it is 100 amp. The thing is, when you open the box, and take the fuses out (2 big box kind of fuses), the fuses in this say 60 amp. Additionally there are about 4 smaller (circle) fuses in the box. (I have a picture of it if anyone would like to see it).

Of the 2 estimates, one was "about" $8,000 for a re-wire, the other quoted me $20,000. You could probably see how confused I really became. I new the 2nd electrician would be more expensive and I do put a "price" on service (I am in sales myself), but I couldn't understand how one quote could by over 100% more expensive. I am going to get one more electrician in there for an estimate.

any more information you all can provide is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

ps. I would NEVER try to do electrical work myself. No DIY here with electricity!

 

[jim sutton]

Re: Amp safety.

Without pysically looking at your house, I hesitate to give advice, you should call another electrician in to have a look.
Since you say that your panel is rated at 100a the size of your service depends on the size of the meter base and the size of the wire coming from the service drop to the meter base and then to your panel.
Some of the old fuse boxes did not have just one set of main fuses, the 60a fuses you mentioned may be for an electric range, electric heat, etc.

For your safety, have another electrician take a look.

 

[bthielen]

Re: Amp safety.

I realize that those posting here probably assume this is being considered but I thought it should be mentioned for your sake.

So far, I have noticed that there is mention of a desire toward updrading to 100A service but no mention as to whether that would even be adequate and legal for your application. It would be in your best interest to take Charlie's advise and get at least one more electrician's estimate to properly size the service according to calculated load. You have indicated a desire to bring the system up to code, which is an excellent idea, and this will require rewiring regardless of the size of the existing service.

If you are planning on upgrading the service anyway and rewiring the entire home, best to do it right for your own safety and peace of mind.

Bob

 

[charlie b]

Re: Amp safety.

There is one more way we can help. Tell us a little about the home, and the electrical ?stuff? that you plan to put into it. I will (unless someone else beats me to it) perform a ?load calculation.? That is the type of calculation that tells you how many amps you will need, to provide power to the things you want. This will also tell you whether a 60 amp or 100 amp service is enough, or whether you need to go higher. Whatever electrical contractor does the job for you should also do the same calculation, and should be able to tell you their results.

Specific questions:
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• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Finally, do you have any ?special? equipment (different than most homeowners might use)? One example is an electric kiln for use in making pottery.</font>

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[southernboys]

Re: Amp safety.

I agree with everyone house but if you have the ability to take pictures of the panel this might help us shed some light on your problems. how established are the two ecs that you had come to your house? do you have just a meter on your house or a meter and breakers?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Amp safety.

Originally posted by dondosae1:
(I have a picture of it if anyone would like to see it).

Absolutely. Seeing what you're looking at can help a lot. Where is it in/on your house?

Of the 2 estimates, one was "about" $8,000 for a re-wire, the other quoted me $20,000. You could probably see how confused I really became.

"A re-wire" is a very generalistic term. What are you receiving for your money? A new metersocket, new conductors, and disconnect outside? That and more? There are many stages to re-wiring a house.

 

[benaround]

Re: Amp safety.

Main,Range,and four. That's what we used to call them,just like Charlie posted 60a Main,40a Range both fed from 100a service entrance,and the "four" is four Edison base fuse slots for branch circuits. I would think a simple panel upgrade would be a good start.

frank

 

[dondosae1]

Re: Amp safety.

benaround hit it on the head. That is the type of box I have.

since I posted, I did talk with the city inspector and he explained to me why the system was deemed "passable". from what HE tells me, there is 100 amp service coming into the house eventhough the fuses I have only protect up to 60 amps. while I know it isn't true because of their size, he say in "theory" i could put 100 amp fuses in the box and it would work fine.

regardless, I do appreciate all the information you all passed to me. I do plan on upgrading the service either way...very likely to 200 amps.

Someone asked exactly what i will be having in the home. I can't answer that as I haven't gotten anything, but it will be alot more than the current resident had. While I know the 200 amp service is higher priced, I think it is better to go that route just in case we do renovations down the line. Will likely be in the home awhile.

As far as what is included in the re-wiring job. I went over the $20K quote and I don't know what the heck the guys were thinking, but they added all this extra stuff that I really don't need. (extra lighting, extra outlets, etc.). Kind of surprising as they probably bid themself out of it. I am not looking for the cheapest either, but my budget is only $10K and obviously, if I don't have to spend that much the better.

The home is 1087 sq foot, but you double this as the basement is the entire length/width of the home. Nice size. The basement is where the box is located.

Anyway, I do appreciate all of the advice received here. I wish one of you lived close to me.

Thanks again.
John

 

[jim sutton]

Re: Amp safety.

Where do you live?

 

[dondosae1]

Re: Amp safety.

Northwest Indiana...about 30 miles east of Chicago. Anyone know of any good electrician's in the area?