"Ampilizer"

[Npstewart]

So I was driving to work today and heard on the radio how we are all wasting money. They were selling a device that "decreases the amount of amps you use, and less amps means less kilo-watts". Apparently they are only selling this device in my area, (Southwest Florida). They claim it will save you 10% on your bill every month, but it costs 15.00/MONTH!

Anyone think this thing actually provides any benefit at all? Any thoughts? Website is below.

http://www.ampilizer.com/

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

So I was driving to work today and heard on the radio how we are all wasting money. They were selling a device that "decreases the amount of amps you use, and less amps means less kilo-watts". Apparently they are only selling this device in my area, (Southwest Florida). They claim it will save you 10% on your bill every month, but it costs 15.00/MONTH!

Anyone think this thing actually provides any benefit at all? Any thoughts? Website is below.

http://www.ampilizer.com/

Here is some reading for you, it's a link to an article explaining why it's a scam

http://www.nlcpr.com/Deceptions1.php

 

[jumper]

I am ROTFL at the "How it works" section.

I do not need an Ampilizer: Jraef sold me an E-Stop button for only $299.00 and I am positive that when I hit it, I will save electricity.

 

[charlie b]

What surprises me is their use of a clear and obvious lie. Normally, you don't see scam advertisements lie. They just tell true things that seem to support their product, but that actually say nothing relevant at all, and then they omit saying other true things that might show their product to be worthless. In this case, they (incorrectly) state that a reduction in amps results in a reduction of KW. OK, I'll concede that a lower current in the service and feeders (if any) will reduce the I2R losses within those wires, and that does, in fact, reduce KW. But that is a second (or even third) order effect, so I am still calling it a lie.

 

[Npstewart]

In order for them to get this product to work, they must have had a electrical engineer involved, I mean someone had to design this thing so it didn't explode when it was connected and presumably it doesn't. At some point the electrical engineer was told the intent of this product, which means at some point that engineer must have told them it wouldn't work or do anything....and then they went and manufactured it anyway. Im so tired of these blatent scams focused on the less educated, and targeted at the ones that don't have a lot of money and just trying to save their dollars.

 

[bphgravity]

Florida Power & Light does not measure or bill for vars or low power factor, only watts/watt-hours. The only savings from power factor correction here would be line loss reduction(I-squared-R loss) as indicated by Charlie above.

I would also note there is nothing on the website indicating a NRTL listing of the product nor any mention that a PERMIT would be required to install one...

This company is in my backyard, so I am thankful to be made aware of it here...

 

[zog]

What always suprises me about these scams is they have electricians installing them that actually think they are effective, because somewhere along the way electrical theory became less important than bending pipe.

 

[zog]

Here is a ad they are running here in NC, and I assume elsewhere, what a joke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LayEDC3SLZU&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[Besoeker]

I am ROTFL at the "How it works" section.

I agree. It's utter nonsense from start to finish.

For a bit of fun I sent this to the contact us section.

I should like to understand how you make the "electromagnetic" current component to be 40Amps.
It is my understanding that the real and reactive components have a phase displacement of pi/4 radians. This means that you cannot simply add them arithmetically.
Please can you explain your methodology?

 

[bphgravity]

I have received an informative resposne from one of my contacts at UL:

Bryan,

Here is some information that may be useful, see attached article.

This type of equipment is typically nothing more than capacitors. Here are two manufactures of similar equipment that have a UL Listing that I am aware of;

http://www.kvar.com/1000/Home

http://www.power-save.com/1200.html

Keep in mind that UL does not evaluate or validate any manufacturer?s claims of energy usage reduction or energy cost reduction due to the use of power factor correction equipment. UL evaluates and Lists power factor correction equipment only for the risks of fire, electric shock, or injury to persons. These units are intended to be installed in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code," you may want to visit Article 460. Specifically section 460.8(A) &(C) require both the conductors and disconnect shall not be less than 135 percent of the rated current of the capacitor. Also 460.12 as it requires that each capacitor shall be provided with a nameplate giving the name of the manufacturer, rated voltage, frequency, kilovar or amperes, number of phases, and, if filled with a combustible liquid, the volume of liquid. Where filled with a nonflammable liquid, the nameplate shall so state. The nameplate shall also indicate whether a capacitor has a discharge device inside the case.

Hope this helps

Jeffrey A. Fecteau CBO, ECO
Lead Regulatory Engineer

----------------------------------

Underwriters Laboratories

 

[iwire]

What always suprises me about these scams is they have electricians installing them that actually think they are effective, because somewhere along the way electrical theory became less important than bending pipe.

It must be tough for you to be the only real electrician in the country.

 

[jumper]

What always suprises me about these scams is they have electricians installing them that actually think they are effective, because somewhere along the way electrical theory became less important than bending pipe.

It must be tough for you to be the only real electrician in the country.

Nobody said the guy installing it sold it to the clueless customer.

If somebody wants one, if it is listed, and the boss says: "put it in", I say it is not my problem. I do not get paid to explain stupidity.

 

[iwire]

If somebody wants one, if it is listed, and the boss says: "put it in", I say it is not my problem. I do not get paid to explain stupidity.

My thought exactly.

I would not lie to a customer to sell them one but if they decided they want me to install 15 of them in a pentagram pattern to scare the witches away I would do it.

 

[zog]

It must be tough for you to be the only real electrician in the country.

You know what I meant, go back and read the previous discussions on this, plenty of electricians that believe these work and sell them.

 

[zog]

My thought exactly.

I would not lie to a customer to sell them one but if they decided they want me to install 15 of them in a pentagram pattern to scare the witches away I would do it.

You would not lie becuase you have a grasp of basic electrical theory and know enough that it would be a lie. My point is many don't, I just think not understanding basic electrical theory is sad to see in this trade and should be a bigger part of training and exams.

 

[Jraef]

In order for them to get this product to work, they must have had a electrical engineer involved, I mean someone had to design this thing so it didn't explode when it was connected and presumably it doesn't. At some point the electrical engineer was told the intent of this product, which means at some point that engineer must have told them it wouldn't work or do anything....and then they went and manufactured it anyway. Im so tired of these blatent scams focused on the less educated, and targeted at the ones that don't have a lot of money and just trying to save their dollars.

I used to like to get involved in scam-busting these things, now I have grown tired of it. The old adage about mud wrestling with a pig comes to mind. But this aspect brought up by Npstewart cought my attention.

I once was contacted by a headhuinter about a job wioth one of these scam artists. They had seen some of my forum posts and believe it or not, thought I would make a good canidate for a lead engineer! I even asked the head hunter, "Did you actually READ what I wrote?" They did, but had no clue. So on a lark I actually went on the interview, it was in Vegas and they paid for the trip, wht the heck...

The upshot is, the owners of the company were a financial holding group, who bought it off if the founder, who WAS and EE! So in essence, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, but his goal appears to have been to start a scam product company, then find a buyer who knew nothing technical but was easily separated from their venture capital. He apparently succeeded.

I was the guy who told them "The Emperor has no clothes", they did NOT like hearing that.

 

[Besoeker]

Well I got a response.

Thank you again for your inquiry regarding the energy-saving AMPilizer. According to your inquiry, your home energy bill and appliances will really save money when an AMPilizer is installed.
Please let us know a time that is convenient for one of our sales representatives to contact you. We can further review the benefits of the AMPilizer, and set up a time for installation.
For a one-time investment of $50 for installation and an ongoing monthly investment of just $15, the AMPilizer can save you at least 10% on your energy consumption. GUARANTEED!
Plus, installation takes about 1-hour and our technician only needs access to your electrical panel which is usually located in your garage.
So why wait? Reply to this e-mail with a phone number so we can contact you today!

Obviously an automated response....
I had included my phone number - including country code of course.

So I replied:

I gave you a phone number. But no problem. Here it is again:
+44(0)1.........
Please can you answer my point directly and succinctly:
Here it is again:

I should like to understand how you make the "electromagnetic" current component to be 40Amps.
It is my understanding that the real and reactive components have a phase displacement of pi/4 radians. This means that you cannot simply add them arithmetically.
Please can you explain your methodology?

I have an additional question now.. What redress do I have if your guaranteed energy savings are not achieved? Will you commit to refunding all of my costs without dispute?

I'm sure I'll get more bull but maybe a real person will look it at some point.
Maybe it will do some good for them to realise that there are enough of us who know that their product is a scam preying on the gullible...
Actually, it's not fair to categorise prospective customers that way. Those of us in the electrical field can see it for what it is. It isn't reasonable to expect those outside our are of knowledge to understand the nature of the scam. But it seems that's how they expect to sell their product. Bogus claims aimed that those who don't have the knowledge to challenge them.
That is certainly immoral, it is probably illegal there as well as here, and it angers me that the charlatans do so.

 

[Besoeker]

And I got the same automated reply. Again. So my actual query has not been addressed.
Now three times.

 

[K8MHZ]

Well I got a response.



Obviously an automated response....
I had included my phone number - including country code of course.

So I replied:


I'm sure I'll get more bull but maybe a real person will look it at some point.
Maybe it will do some good for them to realise that there are enough of us who know that their product is a scam preying on the gullible...
Actually, it's not fair to categorise prospective customers that way. Those of us in the electrical field can see it for what it is. It isn't reasonable to expect those outside our are of knowledge to understand the nature of the scam. But it seems that's how they expect to sell their product. Bogus claims aimed that those who don't have the knowledge to challenge them.
That is certainly immoral, it is probably illegal there as well as here, and it angers me that the charlatans do so.

We are not alone.

There are scams everywhere, particularly in the automotive sales field. At Advance Auto, a large chain here in the US, they were selling a little gadget that plugged into your cigarette lighter that was supposed to give you better mileage and performance by smoothing out your car's electrical system.

You are 100 percent correct about scammers taking advantage of the fact that their prospective customers don't understand a particular technology enough to question it.

All they see is '$ave Money' and '$atisfaction Guaranteed'.

 

[jumper]

I used to like to get involved in scam-busting these things, now I have grown tired of it. The old adage about mud wrestling with a pig comes to mind. But this aspect brought up by Npstewart cought my attention.

I once was contacted by a headhuinter about a job wioth one of these scam artists. They had seen some of my forum posts and believe it or not, thought I would make a good canidate for a lead engineer! I even asked the head hunter, "Did you actually READ what I wrote?" They did, but had no clue. So on a lark I actually went on the interview, it was in Vegas and they paid for the trip, wht the heck...

The upshot is, the owners of the company were a financial holding group, who bought it off if the founder, who WAS and EE! So in essence, he knew EXACTLY what he was doing, but his goal appears to have been to start a scam product company, then find a buyer who knew nothing technical but was easily separated from their venture capital. He apparently succeeded.

I was the guy who told them "The Emperor has no clothes", they did NOT like hearing that.

I am still waiting for my ivory E-Stop button. I know my check bounced, but we can work something out.