An intro & some questions (LED's, Fire Alarms, Networks etc)

[JohnnyScience]

Hi I've done communcations/cabling over the last couple of years and left the field for sales, but now I'm back out of sales & thinking of going back into communications/cabling since its a really good trade and one that I'd be ok with doing as a career.

But I'm not sure what exactly to do and had a few questions.

I've worked with most cables & installed networks, theaters, alarms, fire alarms, etc and learned a little from each, but never became a master of anything.

Now I'm thinking of specializing in Fire Alarms because I was told this was on the higher end of pay in the low voltage trade. Would you guys say thats true?

I'm going to be getting certified with ABC in November when they have the next fire alarm class.

They also said that they work with local companies and can place me if I do well. (we shall see if they hold their word)

But I'm also thinking of still dabbling in networks, Wifi & possibly LED lighting.

Are LED's something that could be considered doable in the low voltage niche, or is high voltage always going to be needed when doing LED's?

I'm just trying to look to the future and on top of Fire Alarms, networks, Wifi & LED's are all strong areas of interest that I would like to really become well versed in.

I'd also like to touch fiber optics & there is a local company that I could perhaps work with to get some experience with that in.

I'm probably going to be starting an LLC later this year so that I can do some independant contracting and advertise for networks, wifi & LED installations. Do you guys usually add "Communications" or "Cabling" to the end of your companys name?

I'd also be interested in finding really good dealers/distributors online for the various wires, wall plates fittings etc to buy from in order to get the best price on job materials. Thanks.

Also if anyone knows any great places online that offer good LED options for low prices.

I know I'm all over the map with this thread, but I told you it was a intro with some questions

Any help or insight would be great.

Thanks.

 

[MAK]

You are kind of all over the map on this thread. I think you are going to find that you are going to really need to polish your skills especially if you want to install fire alarm systems. There is a great amount to learn with fire let alone many of the other types of systems you have listed. You stated early that you have done a little of every thing but are not master of any of them. Perhaps you should narrow your focus to one or two skill sets and become proficient with that. Maybe something that you can realistically get training and experience in and most importantly something you will enjoy. You can offer ten different services to your customers but if you can't do any of them very well then you are wasting your energy.

 

[JohnnyScience]

You are kind of all over the map on this thread. I think you are going to find that you are going to really need to polish your skills especially if you want to install fire alarm systems. There is a great amount to learn with fire let alone many of the other types of systems you have listed. You stated early that you have done a little of every thing but are not master of any of them. Perhaps you should narrow your focus to one or two skill sets and become proficient with that. Maybe something that you can realistically get training and experience in and most importantly something you will enjoy. You can offer ten different services to your customers but if you can't do any of them very well then you are wasting your energy.

Yeah I know its a lot of info, but thats why I put an Intro/Questions for the title

And yes I know I need to specialize in something, thats why I put this in my original thread:

Now I'm thinking of specializing in Fire Alarms because I was told this was on the higher end of pay in the low voltage trade. Would you guys say thats true?

I'm going to be getting certified with ABC in November when they have the next fire alarm class.

They also said that they work with local companies and can place me if I do well. (we shall see if they hold their word)

 

[curt swartz]

I think you need to work on getting experience in what ever you decided to do before even think about starting your own company. I don't know where you are located but most states have licensing requirements. There is a good chance you will need documented experience and pass a test just to work for someone. If you eventually want to start your own business you will probably need to show additional experience and pass additional testing.

The LED lighting part of you post confuses me. LED lighting is still connected to the buildings electrical system so its really no different that installing incandescent, fluorescent or HID lighting.

 

[George Stolz]

I think you need to work on getting experience in what ever you decided to do before even think about starting your own company.

Agreed. I have seen people with a little bit of experience in a lot of different aspects of the trade, with too little experience in any one task to be exceptional (or even proficient) at any of them. IMO, it is far better to earn your stripes before trying to take on the world. It seems evident that the OP is not operating at an expert level of proficiency at this point, and would be well advised to go back to work.

 

[hbiss]

I thought you were specializing in WiFi?http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=128507

-Hal

 

[nhfire77]

I am not sure what ABC is and the certification you speak of. Certification and/or Licensing is not replacement for actual hands on work in fire alarms. Please be very careful before you jump into fire alarm, for safety's sake. I am not discouraging the idea of learning a new skill, but experience is very, very very important.

Sounds like you know networking. Don't worry about the absolute lowest price. If you have a warranty issue, you want someone you can trust. Start looking for small businesses that need full back bone networks set up in their offices. Apartment complex management companies are adding "free Wi-Fi" to a lot of their properties. Based on what you previously posted I would be looking into that.

Here comes my comedic remark : would you please forward all of your customers names that you install fire alarms for so I can come behind you and repair them. :roll: j/k

 

[JohnnyScience]

I'm now 28 and heading a different direction in my life where I need a new career.

And if you guys would have actually READ my entire INTRO thread, instead of just skimming through it and picking it apart and bashing me, you would have understood that I've already mentioned I did cabling & terminations a couple of years ago but got out of it to get back into sales. Now I'm out of sales getting back into low voltage.

It seems like a good decent career with a bright future.

And for ANY of you to tell me to NOT learn a trade or "go back to sales" you can all go to hell.

You were once "new" too. God forbid someone tries to learn or further themselves in a skilled trade.

On another note, once again in my INTRO, (if you know how to read correctly) I mentioned that I thought instead of being a meatjack of all the different low voltage, that I thought I needed to SPECIFY IN SOMETHING.

I then thought that fire alarms was one of the better things to FOCUS on and GET REALLY GOOD AT.

NO WHERE did I say I was going to start a company and install fire alarms.

As mentioned, I am going to get certified with ABC (Associated Builders & Contractors for those who have never heard of them: http://www.abc.org/ ) and considering they are a national company, I'm surprised you "veterans" dont know who they are.

But what I DID say was that I planned on doing WIFI installs on the side while working for a fire alarm company after I get certified for fire. (hence my cat5 thread).

Dont talk to me like I'm stupid just because I dont have as much experience as you and I'm a little rusty for being out of the field for a couple of years.

I gurantee you that I'm one hell of a technician and great at running cable.

Take your DIYchat **** and shove it.

And your right I posted at Mikeholt.com, I also posted on contractorstalk.com

Why? Because I'm serious about doing low voltage as a career and I want to make sure I talk to not only the "right" people, but as many people as possible to get the correct answers. And well, you cant trust everyones advice on the internet these days. You've got to take the collective and form a decision based on that.

And btw I called graybar today & got some prices on their cheapest 1000' box of UTP, solid, pure copper cat5e:

Plenum: $249.
PVC: $138

Not the $60 all you "Vets" say you get it for.

For those of you who have given me true, good advice, I thank you & it doesnt go unlooked.

 

[hbiss]

I'm serious about doing low voltage as a career...

Not to be mean but if that's your goal and go about it as you say you will starve. Apparently you were a wire runner. That doesn't qualify you for anything except maybe running more wire. You weren't paying attention or you are terribly nieve if you think you are capable of more than that without putting your time in learning a trade. Certainly starting a company at this point would be a waste of time. I would suggest picking ONE area you like, such as networking or fire systems and seek employment with an established company. Maybe five years from then you will be ready to go out on your own.

If this is not what you want to hear, I at least am sorry. But sometimes the truth hurts. Your attitude and writing in your posts suggest immaturity which shows even more that you have a way to go before you can call yourself a professional.

-Hal

 

[JohnnyScience]

I'm serious about doing low voltage as a career...

Not to be mean but if that's your goal and go about it as you say you will starve. Apparently you were a wire runner. That doesn't qualify you for anything except maybe running more wire. You weren't paying attention or you are terribly nieve if you think you are capable of more than that without putting your time in learning a trade. Certainly starting a company at this point would be a waste of time. I would suggest picking ONE area you like, such as networking or fire systems and seek employment with an established company. Maybe five years from then you will be ready to go out on your own.

If this is not what you want to hear, I at least am sorry. But sometimes the truth hurts. Your attitude and writing in your posts suggest immaturity which shows even more that you have a way to go before you can call yourself a professional.

-Hal

What are you talking about?

How many times do I have to say I'M GOING TO SPECIALIZE & AM GETTING CERTIFIED IN FIRE ALARM AND WORKING WITH A FIRE ALARM COMPANY

I ONLY PLAN TO DO WIFI INSTALLS RIGHT NOW ON THE SIDE - I dont need to wait 5 years to do them.

And apparently you didnt read my thread. Because I wasnt just a "wire runner", (sure there was a lot of that) but I was also doing full terminations at the box, alarm, fire, data, phone etc and I was damn good at it.

So why dont you take the chip off your shoulder. Somtimes that hurts.

And I dont feel that sticking up for myself is immature, I'm not going to let anyone bash me when they are clearly totally off base.

Thanks for the info Skip.

 

[Andrew D. Kent]

Led question

Led question

We have 600 Canopy Lights(175 watt MV bulbs) to replace with LED's. The initial instalation of 8 lights(mock up) has a power factor reading of .2 when the manufacturer says it should be .9. This is a 120/208 system stepped down from 277/480. What could be the cause of this low PF reading?

 

[roger]

We have 600 Canopy Lights(175 watt MV bulbs) to replace with LED's. The initial instalation of 8 lights(mock up) has a power factor reading of .2 when the manufacturer says it should be .9. This is a 120/208 system stepped down from 277/480. What could be the cause of this low PF reading?

Welcome to the forum.

Now, did you mean to post in this thread?

Roger

 

[dhalleron]

If you want to focus on fire alarm then you should be looking at NICET. http://www.nicet.org

That is the certification you will need to have in order to be of value in the fire alarm field.

I don?t know what certification ABC is offering, but I have never seen a spec calling for their certification and most all specs mention NICET. My guess would be that they are offering a starter course that will just get your feet wet in fire alarm.

It takes lots of field experience working under or with several good fire alarm guys to really get the hang of it.

Running wires and terminating is one thing, but like the electrical code there are so many details to learn. Then you have to deal with every fire marshal or inspector making up rules on the fly and you have to jump through all his hoops.

From my experience, you won't find many places to work that allow you to focus on just fire alarm. They all try to lump it in with security, nurse call and all that other stuff that you have some experience in but are not a master at.

 

[nhfire77]

If you want to focus on fire alarm then you should be looking at NICET. http://www.nicet.org

From my experience, you won't find many places to work that allow you to focus on just fire alarm. They all try to lump it in with security, nurse call and all that other stuff that you have some experience in but are not a master at.

Funny you should say that, I just learned that American Alarm (new england region alarm company) Does not cross train their techs, Fire is separate from everything and everyone else. Its is odd isn't it.

 

[brantmacga]

And btw I called graybar today & got some prices on their cheapest 1000' box of UTP, solid, pure copper cat5e:

Plenum: $249.
PVC: $138

Not the $60 all you "Vets" say you get it for.

You're getting the counter price that any joe blow coming off the street would get.

Setup an account and start buying in volume and the price will go down.


I gotta tell you, screaming and shouting on this forum will get you nowhere.


And honestly, it doesn't sound like you know enough to run jobs on the side; furthermore, side work is severely frowned upon by contractors and in most cases your employment would be terminated if caught doing it.

Someone who was skilled at this type of work wouldn't have forgotten it in two years time.

The best thing to do is not post what you think you already know, but simply ask the answers you seek.

Consider all this "tough love". Many of us have been there, done that, or seen others in your position try so hard, only to fall flat on their face.

Judging by your posts so far, you need to spend considerable time training in a classroom and in the field.

Good luck.

 

[MAK]

What state are you working out of? Some states require a license for low voltage work. In Massachusetts I hold a D-license (Technicians license) which will allow me to perform the work (low voltage) but I can not legally run my own business with out a C-license (contractors license).
I believe in the fire alarm industry (at a national level) that the Nicett fire alarm certifications are sought out almost exclusively in specs. If you are to spend money for a certification for fire alarm your money maybe better spent seeking out a Nicett certification. It will most likely make you more valuable to more companies. ABC may not be recognized widely enough to make it a better value.
I think if you are serious about a side company installing WiFi that you may not want to market it as WiFi (unless you are talking about just setting up home WiFi routers). That would really narrow your customer base for many reasons. You should market it as network installations or something a little more general, then you can filter out the jobs you can handle from the ones you can not handle.

Just a note about posting here, sometimes we write things and read them differently than what is actually there. If you have read enough threads on this site you will see that it happens sometimes.
As long as I have frequented this forum I have seen that the members/moderators are more than willing to answer questions or provide information to help out all members of all different skill levels particularly to those starting out in the industry. I personally have relied on that help many times.
Your "Intro" post lacked some information that probably would help clear up any misunderstandings about what you are specifically after. Maybe a basic how many months/years you worked on some of those different systems you have listed. Do you enjoy working on fire alarm systems? Why did you stop the low voltage field work and go into sales?

 

[wireguru]

as someone else said those cat5 prices are counter prices. I apologize for sounding abrasive, but if you dont know how to contact a sales person at a supply house to set up an account and get pricing on the items you will use often and in quantity then you have no business contracting.

Also, I find it odd that you are SO fixated on the cost of a box of cat5 or a crimp tool when you have so much else to learn and do. That box of cable is one of your smallest costs... If $60/M vs $100/M is going to make or break you (I see that $40 difference as about $6 per jack you wire out of that box) then you have got a real problem. I understand wanting the savings, I squeeze every penny out of everything I buy, but you are putting the cart before the horse.