And now MIT adds their two cents to the AFCI debacle

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mbrooke said:
Correct- I say yes to both.

However, the question which then has to be answered: is arcing even a concern at 120 volts? Sure we can partially sever cable in a lab and carbonize the gash to the point it will conduct 120 volts- but does this actually happen in the real world?






Remember that when AFCIs were introduced into the code they weren't even on the market yet. Fast forward 20 years they still aren't ready for prime time.


The money electricians and contractors spend on AFCIs could go toward a technology thats far more reliable, provides far more coverage then signature analysis alone, and fully matured: GFP. Thats what the rest of the world did with their 230 volt supplies, and what the NEC did with 277/480 volt services over 999amps.

In terms of what provides most life savings for the buck, that would hands down be fire sprinklers. Fire sprinklers will do what no electrical safety technology will ever do- and pretty much what no other life saving technology could do either.
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Perhaps then there is some redemption on the afci horizon after all mbrooke.

~RJ~
 
Dunno MBrooke......what i do know is almost everything i was taught in simple analog terms and methods has bowed down to the digital age.

Digital technology is undeniabally evolving fast, and quite frankly marketing itself well.

A recent anecdotal experience was the installation of a nest smoke alarm for a 2nd homeowner , who showed me how it notified his smart phone ,after he got the app.

It dawned on me that every alarm monitoring company may become extinct via these devices. So to elevate this notion to centralization of an entire structure's wiring system becomes far more valid ,at least from this dinosaurs view...

~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
Dunno MBrooke......what i do know is almost everything i was taught in simple analog terms and methods has bowed down to the digital age.

Digital technology is undeniabally evolving fast, and quite frankly marketing itself well.

A recent anecdotal experience was the installation of a nest smoke alarm for a 2nd homeowner , who showed me how it notified his smart phone ,after he got the app.

It dawned on me that every alarm monitoring company may become extinct via these devices. So to elevate this notion to centralization of an entire structure's wiring system becomes far more valid ,at least from this dinosaurs view...

~RJ~
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A lot of marketing involves perceived benefit in terms of the customer. Second technology is money. Electrical equipment is no longer profitable. It costs pennies to make breakers, wiring devices, ect and it will last 60+ years- easily. Name what else on the market is that cheap to make and lasts that long? Most resi roofs last 40 years and need to be re-done. Most roads re-paved every 15 years. Bridges overhauled after 40. Buy any major appliance today and it breaks in 3-5 years- back in the day it was 20-30.

Now if you can add electronica for a few dollars more, and have it turn itself off after 5 years, you score a business deal made in heaven. And few would object because an authority figure is saying "its for your own good"
 
mbrooke said:
A lot of marketing involves perceived benefit in terms of the customer. Second technology is money. Electrical equipment is no longer profitable. It costs pennies to make breakers, wiring devices, ect and it will last 60+ years- easily. Name what else on the market is that cheap to make and lasts that long? Most resi roofs last 40 years and need to be re-done. Most roads re-paved every 15 years. Bridges overhauled after 40. Buy any major appliance today and it breaks in 3-5 years- back in the day it was 20-30.

Now if you can add electronica for a few dollars more, and have it turn itself off after 5 years, you score a business deal made in heaven. And few would object because an authority figure is saying "its for your own good"
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I can't seem to even get 3-5 years out of many appliances - especially washing machines before something breaks down on it.
 
mbrooke said:
Yup- thats how companies make $$$$.
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The whole "preplanned obsolescence" argument has been around for as long as I can remember, and that's getting to be a long time. The counterargument is that if everyone is making a widget that autodestructs in three years, someone who makes one that lasts for five years for the same price will put them all out of business.

I do not doubt that cutting costs by skimping on component quality is real, and because of it some things tend to break down sooner, but I believe that that is the predominant cause of widget early demise rather than building them intentionally to fail prematurely.
 
ggunn said:
The whole "preplanned obsolescence" argument has been around for as long as I can remember, and that's getting to be a long time. The counterargument is that if everyone is making a widget that autodestructs in three years, someone who makes one that lasts for five years for the same price will put them all out of business.
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Not when the business starts to grow and then gets bought out. They recently bought Weber that I know of, get ready for things to tank. Its on purpose because they know if any product that last longer then theres starts to sell in numbers business will plummet.


I do not doubt that cutting costs by skimping on component quality is real, and because of it some things tend to break down sooner, but I believe that that is the predominant cause of widget early demise rather than building them intentionally to fail prematurely.
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Does a receptacle or breaker need to turn itself off after 5 years?
 
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