Another death

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jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
The following is from the Columbus Dispatch Sunday 18, 2004.

From what I can tell neither inspector is an ESI in Ohio.

This story is posted for those who like to inspect electrical work without having any qualifications.I hope this makes those persons rethink what they are doing.

Painesville, Ohio (AP)

Two state inspectors and a Lake county Fair worker have been charged with reckless homicide in the death of an 8-year-old boy who received an electrical shock from an amusement ride.

A Lake County grand jury returned reckless homicide and involuntary manslaughter counts against Ohio of Department of Agriculture ride inspectors Theodore Brubaker and Kalin Turner and fair worker Nick Mentor of Mentor. The inspectors also were charged with dereliction of duty.

“The grand jury charges reveal that this death did not have to happen,” Vince Culotta, assistant Lake County prosecutor, said Friday. “They thought this was much more than an accident”

The three men were released on personal bond after pleading not guilty on Friday.

Greyson Yoe of Madison was shocked Aug. 13 while waiting in line for a bumper-car ride. He never regained consciousness and died Sept. 2.

Culotta said the ride’s electrical system was not properly grounded.

Ohio Department of Agriculture Director Fred L. Dailey said the inspectors were placed on paid leave because of the indictments.

Each man faces up to five years in prison on each count.


Mike P.
 
Re: Another death

Pretty serious charges but consider though that a grand jury could indict a ham sandwich given an over zealous prosecutor. This is just a knee jerk reaction to a tragic accident.

If these inspectors were employed by the state to inspect rides and they didn't have electrical knowledge whose fault is that? Who trained them? They were just doing their job. Sue the damn state!!
 
Re: Another death

If they were doing their job and didn't see the violation whos fault is it then?
 
Re: Another death

If they were doing their job and didn't see the violation whos fault is it then?

Well, whether they were doing their job boils down to what they have been trained to do and what, if any, test equipment they were provided with. These guys are not electrical inspectors they are department of agriculture.

Also, who is to say that they didn't properly check the ride and the ground fault happened later?

This is a tragedy for sure, but if crap like this keeps happening there is not going to be anybody willing to inspect anything because the personal risk is just too great.
 
Re: Another death

"what they have been trained to do"

That is the problem.

Now read this:

"Amusement Ride Safety
Protecting the Riding Public"

"Known around the world for its number of high-quality roller coasters and stationary rides, Ohio's amusement ride industry continues to grow. ODA continues to ensure the safeness of all amusement rides -- a staple of summertime entertainment. Ohio boasts one of the best ride inspection programs in the country."

From: http://www.ohioagriculture.gov/pubs/divs/amus/amus-index.stm


"Ohio boasts" I can not wait to see them defend that statement.

The charges should be against the State of Ohio and not the ill-trained inspectors.

Where I am trying to go with this is if we as contractors (or employers) sent employees into the field unquailfied or uneducated we would be up the creek.

These inspectors should NOT be charge due to the fact that the state knows that only ESI's are allowed to perform electrical inspections.

Per the ORC:
? 3783.06 Prohibition.

Text of Statute

No person shall engage in the practice of electrical inspection in this state unless he is the holder of a certificate of competency as an electrical safety inspector issued under Chapter 3783 of the Revised Code. Any person practicing or offering to practice electrical inspection shall show proof of his certification upon request as provided by rules of the board of building standards.

HISTORY: 133 v H 991 (Eff 9-4-70); 135 v H 1. Eff 3-22-73

Mike P.
 
Re: Another death

Jim, home inspectors are inspecting for a different reason.

They would not be "certifying" a building or installation for code compliance or safety.

Roger
 
Re: Another death

... a grand jury could indict a ham sandwich given an over zealous prosecutor.
Click to expand...
Why do we typically blame prosecutors for court decisions? The trial attorneys don't make the decisions, they only present their evidence to the best of their ability. Judges and juries make the decisions based on the facts presented and the law. Personally, I would prefer that my defense attorney be very overzealous in my behalf! The problem is that we make it too easy to file a charge without personal ramifications if we are wrong. As a result our court system is over-booked with petty and trivial cases. This situation could be improved considerably if the plaintiff is held financially responsible for the defense if he/she loses the case. Then, one would have to be quite certain of his/her position before actually filing.

Only so much an inspector can see
Click to expand...
Or not ignore. For those inspectors out there, please don't take this personal but I have seen enough threads in this forum to indicate this does happen. Besides that, we are all human and to assume it doesn't happen is blind. Why do we have inspections in the first place? So we are assured that the work has been done in a safe manner. I can understand an inspector's position here. One cannot be expected to check each and every screw or terminal for proper tension but we also need to be certain that our inspectors are being thorough. Otherwise, why hire an inspector? I believe, as I know I would were I an inspector, that an inspector places a certain level of blind trust on the professional contractor to know what he/she is doing and in doing so, is assuming quite a bit of risk. I think a contractor owes a great deal of respect here!

... but if crap like this keeps happening there is not going to be anybody willing to inspect anything because the personal risk is just too great.
Click to expand...
Ask a doctor about personal risk! A major cause for high medical cost is liability insurance. They are people and people make mistakes but any mistake by a doctor is almost automatically negligence. This country has progressed so far toward the "I'm not responsible" attitude that it is becoming nearly impossible not to be held liable for everything in some way. We're notorious at not being willing to step up to the plate and accept responsibility for ourselves and our own actions. We are totally unwilling to give others the benefit of the doubt and accept that we will make mistakes and yes, sometimes they hurt. Such is life.

Bob
 
Re: Another death

So are we going to go after a electrical inspector that misses something on a house and someone dies.Charge him with homicide.That's a bit much.Am sorry a kid died over this but let's put the blame on the installer not the inspector.Down here inspectors get 25 to 30 inspections a day.Just what all do you think he can check in that short time ?
 
Re: Another death

Jim,
Down here inspectors get 25 to 30 inspections a day.Just what all do you think he can check in that short time ?
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sounds like a personal problem, and if they can't do their jobs by their own addmission, (or is it just yours) what are they being paid for? I work overtime when it's necessary, so I don't buy that argument.

Roger
 
Re: Another death

25 to 30 inspection a day?

If the inspections were close together(?), and the inspector can do it in 20 minutes (which I highly doubt, especially if there is a problem or it is a sizeable inspection), that could take 10 hours without a break. I say the system is flawed and they need more inspectors.
That system will make it almost impossible for the inspector.

In Ireland (I know we are not in Ireland, I just want to show the difference). The inspector will be called for several inspections by a contractor. The inspector will randomly pick one job and spends up to the whole day on that inspection, including a megger test of the conductors. If that job fails, all of the jobs fail. This puts the pressure on the contractor and that is how it should be. The inspectors have a full set of tools for these inspections :p

I also believe this case will be closely watched, with the results being very important to all inspectors.

Pierre
 
Re: Another death

Pierre ,they are probably within 5 min ride of each other and sometimes include things like 4 units at a time.My point was unless they have as much time as needed to inspect everything they care to, then what we actually get is a fast walk thru.I do not feel that the inspectors job is to catch everything or he is responsible.On a final the power is usually off so he will not be able to verify all the gfci protected outlets work,or that the arc faults work.Should someone get killed over this then it is the EC that should take the rap.
 
Re: Another death

Jim,
then what we actually get is a fast walk thru.
Click to expand...
then are you happy with your tax dollars paying these people for not doing a job.

do not feel that the inspectors job is to catch everything
Click to expand...
Even with a true effort (which by your discription doesn't exist) they couldn't. With this fast walk thru, do they catch anything?

or he is responsible.
Click to expand...
It would be nice to have a job where you are not held accountable. Again, what are they being paid for?

How do they even fake inspecting a large commercial project with a "fast walk thru"?

Roger
 
Re: Another death

Jim: I find the inspection practices you speak of very strange. De-engerized circuits on a final and 25-30 a day is nothing short of negligence, in my opinion.
 
Re: Another death

Ryan,the way it works here is poco will not put a meter in until we have a C O and of course we can't get that until all the inspections have passed.No it's not a good system ,but it is the way we do it.Forces electricians to hot check by some means that i will not comment on here as they violate OSHA.
 
Re: Another death

"poco will not put a meter in until we have a C O"

Say what?

Here you get a service release, usually at the same time as the rough.

How do your inspectors verify the electrical system. I have a trained eye, but its not that good.

Mike P.
 
Re: Another death

"How do your inspectors verify the electrical system. I have a trained eye, but its not that good."
They don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My understanding on this is they use this method to keep people from moving into unfinished houses.That may or may not be correct.

On our final electric inspections inspectors go into un powered homes.They inspect for all fixtures required to be installed or if not required blanked off,gfci receptacles and down stream stickers.They verify breaker sizes (mostly on AC)and look for labeled panels with lockouts where required.If they meet all this and all plate covers in place ,they pass it.
If anything works or not is up to the electrician.
In some cases i have seen houses that don't receive power till they close on the house.
Most EC will hot check a house before the final inspections.The method they use will not be talked about here.
 
Re: Another death

Jim, so by your admission they aren't doing their job, and actually condoning OSHA violations. In some cases they actually instruct people to violate OSHA rules. (I know this for a fact)

With all this, you still defend them and think they should not be held accountable for someones death?

Once again, don't you have a problem with your tax dollars paying for a service that isn't delivered?

How do they inspect a large commercial job?

Depending on size, some of our finals may take upwards of two days with more than one inspector.

How come Allen doesn't get the fast walk thru? :confused:

Roger

[ January 24, 2004, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
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