Ansul Contactor panel

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marko76

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My question is on a typical kitchen class1 hood the kitchen supplier supplies a control panel wich has starters for make up air units , does the disconnect for the motor controller have to be with in sight OR does it fall under 430-102 B. exception #2 ?

In my mind I would think that having a disco for a critical exaust fan would be hazardous do to grease fire.
 
marko76 said:
...does it fall under 430-102 B. exception #2 ?

...
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2002 NEC edition?

430.102(B) in the 2005 edition was revised and has no Exception No. 2. Furthermore, 430.102(B) is regarding the disconnecting means of the motor(s) and driven machinery. 430.102(A) is the applicable code for the controller (no indication of this being revised). Only 430.102(A) Exception No. 1, motor citcuits over 600 volts, permits, with restrictions, out-of-site disconnects.

Keep in mind, there is no restriction that I know of that requires the controller and, or, the disconnect to be adjacent to the hood. The "located in sight from" restriction perimits up to 50 ft. distance between disconnect and controller. Additionally, I do not believe there to be any "in sight of" or distance restriction for a single controller's location with respect to the apparatus it controls.
 
Marko, on the Ansul systems we have wired up they are pretty simple. They have usually 2 micro switches which are located in the enclosure. When the handle is pulled and the cable is released the micro switches trip. They have a NC and a NO connection point each. We usually tie the NO point back to the shunt trip on the breakers in the panel and the contactor fo the exhaust fan. There usually in no disconnect near the grease area.

I guess to answer the original question would be no, the disconnect does not have to be in sight. But there again I am no a code Guru like a lot of people on here. I learn alot of new things on the code alot of times because of questions that come in here.
 
Ditto on the microswitches....Ansul doesn't supply the contactors, although your kitchen equipment supplier may.
In the event of a fire the ansul switches kill all power to equipment under the hood (via contactors or shunt trip breakers)...they do not kill the exhaust fan. It (per code) continues to run.
 
this perticular controller is called a captive air panel wich contains overloads and contactors it is controlled via a control circuit from the N/C micro switch , the electrical inspector is calling this a motor controller and requiring me to intall 5 disconnects within sight -mau1,mau2,& 3 fans I have done half a dozen kitchens before and never questioned on this matter.
 
Mark if it is not a motor controller what would you say one is?

I was not sure what you had until you said it was a capture fan panel.

The ones I wire have built in unit switches to meet the disconect requirement.

If yours has no unit switches than I agree with the inspector that you need to provide disconnects.

One last thing, the ones I wire typically have a 3 phase feeder that supplies all three to six fans so only one disconect would be needed.

Do you really have 5 separate circuits supplying this control panel?
 
Mark, why do you have to install 5 disconnect switches? Won't 1 single master switch do the same? Is he worried about OCP for the contactors? Won't the breakers serve that? Without me looking at it I can't get a clear picture of what is going on?
 
dduffee260 said:
Mark, why do you have to install 5 disconnect switches? Won't 1 single master switch do the same? Is he worried about OCP for the contactors? Won't the breakers serve that? Without me looking at it I can't get a clear picture of what is going on?
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430.102(A) requires a disconnecting means that shuts off the controllers (the contactors) within sight of the controller(s).

If this control panel has five circuits feeding from out of sight breakers it he will need 5 grouped disconnects.

430.102(B) goes onto require disconnects at the motors if they are not in sight from the controller disconect.

This typically means additional disconnects on the roof and above the ceiling on the hood capture jet systems I have worked on.
 
Bob, can you not install device such as a light switch that operates the contactor or a group of contactors. Is that not considered a disconnect? Or do they want the knife thrown of the disconnect flipped off?
 
dduffee260 said:
Bob, can you not install device such as a light switch that operates the contactor or a group of contactors. Is that not considered a disconnect? Or do they want the knife thrown of the disconnect flipped off?
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Not Bob, but... No, a switch put in the contactors'/overloads' control circuit is not considered a disconnect. That is distinguished as the Motor Control Circuit. See 430.2 Definitions...
 
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Thanks guys I think I found what I need to do it just seems as though it isnt the safest as for being able to disconnect the exhaust fans at any point in time and pose an extreme fire danger on the kitchen. Would a fire marshall ( having jurisdiction) see it any diferently?
 
marko76 said:
Thanks guys I think I found what I need to do it just seems as though it isnt the safest as for being able to disconnect the exhaust fans at any point in time and pose an extreme fire danger on the kitchen. Would a fire marshall ( having jurisdiction) see it any diferently?
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Perhaps. Perhaps not. Why don't you ask him/her and let us know the response?
 
marko76 said:
Thanks guys I think I found what I need to do it just seems as though it isnt the safest as for being able to disconnect the exhaust fans at any point in time and pose an extreme fire danger on the kitchen. Would a fire marshall ( having jurisdiction) see it any diferently?
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You should have switches on your hood to control the hood lights and exhaust fans. The only time you wouldn't have control of the exhaust fans from those switches is when the system is tripped, which bypasses the switch making the exhaust fan run until system is reset.
 
chevyx92 said:
You should have switches on your hood to control the hood lights and exhaust fans. The only time you wouldn't have control of the exhaust fans from those switches is when the system is tripped, which bypasses the switch making the exhaust fan run until system is reset.
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If a controller disconnect is manually operated and switched off, the trip-bypass circuit will not turn it on.
 
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Smart $ said:
If a controller disconnect is manually operated and switched off, the trip-bypass circuit will not turn it on.
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Well of course it wouldn't turn on if you operated a disconnect to open the circuit.
 
Smart $ said:
If a controller disconnect is manually operated and switched off, the trip-bypass circuit will not turn it on.
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That depends on it being connected to the system properly. We always make sure that the intake fan (if there is one) shuts off, regardless of the switch position, and the exhaust fan starts up, regardless of the switch position.

I have a diagram for accomplishing this using only one microswitch and three conductors, if the blowers are 120v. I'm sure I can adopt it for almost any setup.
 
LarryFine said:
That depends...
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I think you missed the point...

The disconnect is [will be] ahead of the controller. If the disconnect is open/off, how will activating the fire suppression system turn on the exhaust fans?
 
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