Any idea if this Eaton panelboard can be modified?

[brantmacga]

Sent in a bid today on a Wendy's to Taco Bell conversion.

The Taco Bell drawings are showing two new RTU's being installed, and require an 80/3 and 50/3 breaker to be added to the MDP. Taco Bell engineer shows existing 8-space MDP with 3 empty spaces.

The original Wendy's drawings show an existing 6-space MDP with 1 empty space, and the site photos clearly agree.

I included the cost of the breakers in my price and qualified it with the note that there is a conflict in the drawings, and a change order would be required or have the engineer correct the drawings and show another solution to price.

Anyway, here are the site photos; it looks like there is plenty of empty bus bar above the main. Any idea of this main breaker can be moved up the bus bars and add a bus kit for the new breakers? I know obviously we'd have to order new cover components to accommodate the change. Not sure if that's even a possibility though. Anyone had to do this before ?

I think we'll most likely end up with this job so trying to think ahead some.

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[brantmacga]

Any idea if this Eaton panelboard can be modified?

It looks like there are two cover sections above the main that can be removed and replaced with a cover that would fit these two breakers.

Would I really even need to move the main breaker? I'm thinking the two breakers will fit above it and leave everything else as is.


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[Cow]

I vote no.

I see a larger replacement panel in your future.

 

[brantmacga]

I vote no.

I see a larger replacement panel in your future.

I think if it is a no, it would be less costly to add another subpanel. Replacing this MDP would be several thousand dollars in material and labor.


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[templdl]

Sent in a bid today on a Wendy's to Taco Bell conversion.

The Taco Bell drawings are showing two new RTU's being installed, and require an 80/3 and 50/3 breaker to be added to the MDP. Taco Bell engineer shows existing 8-space MDP with 3 empty spaces.

The original Wendy's drawings show an existing 6-space MDP with 1 empty space, and the site photos clearly agree.

I included the cost of the breakers in my price and qualified it with the note that there is a conflict in the drawings, and a change order would be required or have the engineer correct the drawings and show another solution to price.

Anyway, here are the site photos; it looks like there is plenty of empty bus bar above the main. Any idea of this main breaker can be moved up the bus bars and add a bus kit for the new breakers? I know obviously we'd have to order new cover components to accommodate the change. Not sure if that's even a possibility though. Anyone had to do this before ?

I think we'll most likely end up with this job so trying to think ahead some.

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Is that a main breaker at the top with a shunt trip? Or a feeder breaker? I see that there seems to be sub fed lugsa at the bottom which appears to be occupied if they are not main lugs.
But,
No, you are correct as there is only room for one more 3p breaker. What is required is 10# of stuff in a 1# bag.
Sub panel time? Since MDP panels do come in different widths depending upon the breaker frames, you our panel may be wide enough to add a 250a J-frame breaker to feed a sub panel. If so bus connectors and a mounting kit would be needed along with a J-frame breaker to feed your sub panel. The owner may need to bite the bullet on this one.
Otherwise I believe the F-frame is available in a higher ampacity ty O'Day than in the past than 150a as I recall. If you add a sub panel you my want to at least size the sub panel for future expansion.
In any event does that panel have enough ampacity for the additional load?

 

[Fulthrotl]

Anyway, here are the site photos; it looks like there is plenty of empty bus bar above the main. Any idea of this main breaker can be moved up the bus bars and add a bus kit for the new breakers? I know obviously we'd have to order new cover components to accommodate the change. Not sure if that's even a possibility though. Anyone had to do this before ?

I think we'll most likely end up with this job so trying to think ahead some.

firstly, we need up upgrade your camera phone.
either it, or i, are too fuzzy.

based on what i can see, the kit you need will
be 1/2" wider than that top filler piece will allow.

if it were me, i'd get the bus kit, breakers, and
dead front piece, and then get a good sheet metal
shop to make me a top filler piece that looks good
enough that when painted to match, you can't tell
it's not OEM. then, put it all togeather.

i had to do something just like that on 480 volt eaton
gear, and it came out exactly a half inch off.

and that silly little filler piece was $1,600. for a piece
of sheet metal 12" x 8". i had my stainless guy shear
off a half inch, bend a new lip, and i matched the paint,
and shot it with a spray gun. matched perfectly.

eaton is a horrible rapist on onsie twosies. just 'sayin.

 

[electrofelon]

No, you are correct as there is only room for one more 3p breaker.

Just curious, How do you know that? I recently shuffled some stuff around without difficulty in what looks to be the exact same panel.

 

[brantmacga]

firstly, we need up upgrade your camera phone.
either it, or i, are too fuzzy.
.

These are the pics sent with plans ..... I didn't take them.






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[brantmacga]

Is that a main breaker at the top with a shunt trip? Or a feeder breaker? I see that there seems to be sub fed lugsa at the bottom which appears to be occupied if they are not main lugs.

Yeh......I think you're right. I didn't notice that until now but I don't think it is actually a MCB



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[templdl]

Yeh......I think you're right. I didn't notice that until now but I don't think it is actually a MCB



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The MCB at the top is a main 250a frame breaker with a shunt trip is my guess.
I've sold a number of these panels over the years.
Can you mount breakers over those lugs at the bottom?
Are the mounting rails long enough to add breakers as I see only one 3p space available.
I don't see the bus being long enough either.
In addition, in making the modifications that you suggest would the panel still be within it's UL listing for field modification in compliance to NEC art 110?
But I did see a panel that had (2) 150 frame breakers that were suspended in the wiireway on each side with twine once .

 

[Jraef]

That main CB may be located there because of wire bending space requirements, you may not be able to (legally) move it.

 

[ghorwood]

You can go online to see what Eaton offers in the way of spare parts for this interior. They have excellent online catalogs. They may sell exactly what you need to make it work using factory parts. Once you try to field fabricate this thing, you own it. A rebuild using Eaton parts is best as they were engineered to fit.

Also, depending on the dimensions of the can, it may be possible to replace only the interior to suit your needs. That would eliminate the cost of replacing the whole thing.

 

[brantmacga]

You can go online to see what Eaton offers in the way of spare parts for this interior. They have excellent online catalogs..

I'll check that out thank you



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[brantmacga]

That main CB may be located there because of wire bending space requirements, you may not be able to (legally) move it.

Thought about that too


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[brantmacga]

Talked to Eaton, they want some numbers on the board. It will be some time before I get them, but I'll follow up with what they say.


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