Any of you doing any work related to "Smart Homes"?

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bjp_ne_elec

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Southern NH
Was talking to my brother-in-law, who is an EC back in NY (nothing like keeping it in the family) - and he said that he has made wiring what he refers to as "Smart Homes". He's in upstate NY, and the number of high end homes is not as good as it is out in NE - so I'm wondering if anyone else out their could share their experience with these types of home? What type of systems you're putting in, how much of your yearly gross is generated with this type of work, etc.

Thanks

Brett
 
Brett,

I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for with respect to "Smart Homes" but I'll share my experiences with you. I find that selling a Smarthome "total package" is a tough sell issue. While the technology is great, the majority of the general public, especially those willing to plunk down several hundred thousand $$$, are not willing to spend the extra $$ for some futuristic lighting and control scheme. In addition, when you install these types of controls you're pretty much "married" to them (if I may coin a phrase). For example, if you wired a house with X-10 or Radio RA, if it begins to fail you can just say "take it out and install regular switches". You'll have to find an equal replacement.

Anyway, I've often used X-10 equipment in situations where it was impractical to get wiring down to a desired location. For example, a landscape lighting company that I do work for installed 4 separate lighting runs in the front of a house that all illuminate at the same time. Running a switch leg to the front entrance of this house was not only impractical but impossible. I installed (4) 20 amp GFI protected circuits to X-10 receptacles with bubble covers in the shrub beds all with the same address. I then installed an X-10 switch in place of an existing one at the front foyer entrance. System has worked fine for 3 years so far (except for one X-10 receptacle that went bad). This is a situation where you're locked into this system for life.

You also have to "pay for your education" with this stuff. Plan on making some type of sacrafice in terms of $$$ as you will find that some of the switches and receptacles you install do not work the first time out, or this switch doesn't respond to "all on or all off" commands, or the dimmers are only rated for 300 watts, etc. There isn't enough information on the sellers' websites that warn you of the many devices and appliances that block X-10 signals (i.e laptop computer chargers, TV's, phone system transformers, etc.). You'll have to find that out as you go. The reason I say this is if you give a price to do a particular job, make provisions for contingencies that may arise. (BTW, I have a large box of extra X-10 switches and devices in my shed that I have paid for and the seller won't take back because it was my fault that the devices didn't work because I didn't buy their $300.00 device that checks for the strength of X-10 signals).

I don't have much experience with systems like Radio RA or centrally controlled systems. But if you stop and think about what it takes to install these systems you'll see why I think it's a tough sell. Instead of having a 3 or 4 gang switch box in a master bedroom all you'll need is a 1 gang box with low voltage control wiring to a central control cabinet. However, all the lighting wiring schemes for that room have to be run back to that control cabinet. IMHO you'll end up running more copper wire than you would have in a normal installation. The only selling feature is a smaller JB in the room. Just can't see it.

Anyway, hope this helps. If you're a better salesman than me - go for it.

Phil,
Gold Star Electric
New Jersey
 
Not doing much currently. BUT... I just did some renovation work in a "Smart Home" of the early '90s. This is the dumbest home ever! At the time it was supposed to be the future of smart home technology. A mere 15 years later (an eternity in tech years) the components are starting to fail, the manufacturer is long gone, and the homeowners are left with a mess. Some lights are not operable and parts to repair the system are not available.
 
The RadioRA system is great. It's not inexpensive. I've put in a few. Materials can be $4k - $12k. To me, if you have a lot of lighitng, you need something like it. If not your lighting will be a waste since you won't hit 6 or 7 switches when you go into a room. For example in one of the houses, the kitchen has switches for: under cabinet lighting, above cabinet lighting, lights in the glass cabinets, pendants over the island, low voltage recessed around the perimeter, line voltage recessed in the center, cove lighting, and a chandelier. So with a RadioRA graffik eye, they just hit a button and lights come on to preset levels.

If you don't have a lot of lighting, though, It's a waste of money to me. Keeping things simple with just a few dimmers can be underrated.

As Scott and Phil mentioned, I would be concerned with some technology becoming obsolete.

I think some of this smarthome technology is ridiculous. Do you really need to turn on your oven from a computer screen or from work? How about just walking over an turning it on. Probably a lot faster. I think some things are incorporated into smart homes just because they can be.

Other things like thermostat, lighting, and alarm control have merit to me.
 
Good advise so far. I'll add my bit. I have used the above mentioned systems plus HAI / ONQ. Also Advantage and I think Lite Touch. I will just comment on two points. It is a hard sell. The customer / contractor / designer has to be really into it because it does cost more money. On some houses it is a given because they have everything else. Otherwise you may be sorry for talking someone into a confusing system to operate and program.
Which leads to the next point. When you hand them the instructions on how to make changes in the program it is too much learning for the average person. I live in an area of resort / vacation / second homes. On one house it was about 3 million total construction. I asked the owner about lighting control. He said " Are you crazy? I got that stuff at home. Turn on the stereo and the furnace from the same screen and all that. Nobody can figure it out. My guest can't even firgure out how to turn lights on." So needless to say I wired it normally. But I did get a generator out of it!

PS well, I did put it in my home though. Plus A-Bus and a generator and a security system. And ALC lighting. And DHC ( decora home control ) and a whole house TVSS. Now I'll pass away and my wife will wonder what to do with all these gadgets.
 
Bill I agree completely. I just went to a house and redid an audio system that was way too complex for the customer. They said you needed an IT degree to operate it. Some things are better kept simple.
 
If I had a customer that wanted it, I would sub the first one out, or suggest that the homeowner contract separately, to some outfit that does those systems along with security systems. You get to learn by watching and integrating with the electrical and lighting systems, and someone else has the responsibility to make it work.

You could probably make a deal with the specialty company that makes you a little something and puts the learning risk somewhere else.

If you are comfortable after a couple of systems, then you can consider buying the hardware and doing it on your own, but I suspect you would be better off letting the expert do the wizardry part.
 
Anecdote: When I lived in the UK I had an "enthusiasts" smart home, which worked pretty well for many years. One day I was doing some work on it, and my daughter, who was at the time about 15, walked into the back porch, and the light didn't come on. This was odd to her, 'cos anytime she ever went out there previously and it was dark the light always came on. Anyway, she thought something was wrong, so I got "Dad, the porch light is broken". "No it's not", I replied, "I'm working on the automation, switch it on using the switch". "What switch?" the daughter replied. She didn't even know there was a switch, becuase for her entire life, it was something she had never used. The lights just worked.

Smart homes are supposed to make life easier. If it makes life harder, you're doing it wrong, or you've solved a problem that didn't need solving.

Disclaimer: I'm a fan of smart homes (even though my current home isn't, outside of some Cat5), and a certified Clipsal CBus integrator. The CBus system will be available in the USA this year (see SquareD Lighting Control), and you really might like it (as a value add opportunity), as might your customers (as it's neat and just works). No affiliation other than as stated.
 
We've done some of this smart house stuff and I really think it's way over-rated. As mentioned earlier in this thread, technology passes up the most sofisticated systems in just a years, and the companies come and go. FWIW if I do a system I like to stay with a brand that I think will be around for awhile. Touchplate is a company that has been producing LV contol systems since 1947. They have all the latest stuff, but what I like about them is that I can still get replacement parts for anything they've ever made since 1947. That's huge in my book. For my house; I like my pullchain lampholders in the center of each room, one wall socket in each room and the old handcrank Victrolla for my music.
 
bkludecke said:
For my house; I like my pullchain lampholders in the center of each room, one wall socket in each room and the old handcrank Victrolla for my music.
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You're really dating yourself aren't you ??? Did you forget the spitune in the corner ?
 
WE are wiring a rather large house, with structured wiring for intercom, music system, and security cameras. We are NOT using structured wiring for lighitng schemes, or other "smart" house things, as the owners are probably going to be overwhelmed as it is ... :D

We're using ON-Q stuff for the intercom, and music systems. Any of you had any experience with the GreyFox or P&S On-Q?

This stuf ain't cheep!
 
bkludecke said:
For my house; I like my pullchain lampholders in the center of each room, one wall socket in each room and the old handcrank Victrolla for my music.
Click to expand...

LOL. :D I am perfectly fine with that set-up too. And I'm under 30!

If I ever build my own home, my goal is to wire it with 2 coils of 14/2, one coil of 12/2 and a half coil of 14/3. Bare code minimums and all. I like simplicity. :cool:
 
kbsparky said:
WE are wiring a rather large house, with structured wiring for intercom, music system, and security cameras. We are NOT using structured wiring for lighitng schemes, or other "smart" house things, as the owners are probably going to be overwhelmed as it is ... :D

We're using ON-Q stuff for the intercom, and music systems. Any of you had any experience with the GreyFox or P&S On-Q?

This stuf ain't cheep!
Click to expand...


We mainly use the P&S Greyfox (OnQ) systems.

It's relatively inexpensive as systems go. there are alot more advanced systems that utilize touch screens and so on...
 
my supply house introduced me a few weeks go to the suttel brand and i'm using it in a trim-out next week. have any of you ever used this stuff? it was a lot less than the leviton SMC. a 28" panel, voice and video setup is less than $100. as far as smart homes go, i've tried to push some small items but just can't get it sold. nobody here is interested in it. we had a guy doing lite jet systems; he was telling me that he signed a contract to do 10 homes and market them as smart homes. i only saw one house that he did, a pretty big multi-million dollar home. now he's out of business. i'm using some lutron grafik eye stuff. its pretty simple and can be controlled w/ an ir learning remote. what i like about it is that it comes in different sizes. two switch legs (zones) uses a grafix eye that will fit on a two gang box, 3 & 3, 4 & 4. if you wanted to do away with it, just take it out and install normal switches. a standard 4 scene 4 zone controller runs around $350.
 
jaylectricity said:
I'm sorry Dave, I cannot allow you to do that.
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