Apartment air handler

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Glennsparky

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Casselberry, FL USA (near Orlando)
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Inside the air handler plenum is a black plastic GE outdoor A/C disconnect (TPN60R type 3R enclosure). The apartment maintenance supervisor says it stays, there's no problem. Construction started on the building in 1990. It's probably been occupied since '91 or '92. Does anyone know 300.22 from back then? Was this ever allowed? What's the possibility it's grandfathered?[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text]
[/FONT]xtra info:
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Seminole County, Florida[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Parcel: 21-21-30-526-0000-0010[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Property Address:1116 Pointe Newport Terrace, Casselberry 32707[/FONT][/FONT]
 
Glennsparky said:
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Inside the air handler plenum is a black plastic GE outdoor A/C disconnect (TPN60R type 3R enclosure). The apartment maintenance supervisor says it stays, there's no problem. Construction started on the building in 1990. It's probably been occupied since '91 or '92. Does anyone know 300.22 from back then? Was this ever allowed? What's the possibility it's grandfathered?[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text]
[/FONT]xtra info:
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Seminole County, Florida[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Parcel: 21-21-30-526-0000-0010[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Property Address:1116 Pointe Newport Terrace, Casselberry 32707[/FONT][/FONT]
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what difference does it make? If the guy in charge says it stays, it stays.

what is your specific gripe with it and how are you even involved?
 
Glennsparky said:
Well Bob, do you mean other than integrity, morality and doing the right thing? Should I say, "I was only following orders"? Is it ok because Mr. Schicklgruber said so?
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Just how are you involved in this situation and what is your specific gripe about it that makes you think it is immoral in some way?
 
is it in an air return ceiling, or an actual plenum?

I suppose the issue is having a plastic box that is probably not made of Teflon or other low volatility compound in such a location... Being as how you can't even use regular zip ties in an air return ceiling now, I suppose questioning it is valid, if for nothing else than education sake and doing something differently in the future.

as for the original posters installation, I don't think I would lose any sleep over it one way or the other. If an inspector is making you change it, that's a different story
 
petersonra said:
Just how are you involved in this situation and what is your specific gripe about it that makes you think it is immoral in some way?
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I'll try to answer in good faith. If it's grandfathered, I have no gripe, only an opinion. Fumes from burning plastic has a history of killing people. Not outright, but being incapacitated led to the same result. So, the reason for 300.22 makes sense to me. Especially as the air handler fans the flames and distributes the poison to living and sleeping spaces. Professional ethics puts the burden on me to be involved. To turn a blind eye would be abhorrent. Every person has specialized knowledge that makes getting involved their responsibility. I hope a doctor wouldn't let me drink poison out of ignorance. In my small way, this is on me.
 
1993 300-22 (c)

1993 300-22 (c)

sorry do not have a 1990 code book handy. But I would say by the 93 code book this would not be allowed unless listed for this application.

That being said, if this disconnect is in ceiling would not hight and accessibility be a problem?
 
Thank you sblk55. FL just started using the 2014 NEC five months ago. For all i know they could have been using an early 80s codebook in 1990. It's a seven foot ceiling. The louvered metal door is hinged on one side and has magnets on the other. Pull on one edge and the door swings down with the filter. Through the door are all the air handler pieces. It looks like it was field assembled in place then a sheetrock box was built around it. The sheetrock box is all the return plenum there is. Anyone working in there is never out of arms reach of the disconnect. Height and accessibility may not be to modern standards, but i feel safe up there.
 
Glennsparky said:
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Inside the air handler plenum is a black plastic GE outdoor A/C disconnect (TPN60R type 3R enclosure). The apartment maintenance supervisor says it stays, there's no problem. Construction started on the building in 1990. It's probably been occupied since '91 or '92. Does anyone know 300.22 from back then? Was this ever allowed? What's the possibility it's grandfathered?[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text]
[/FONT]xtra info:
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Seminole County, Florida[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Parcel: 21-21-30-526-0000-0010[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText]Property Address:1116 Pointe Newport Terrace, Casselberry 32707[/FONT][/FONT]
Click to expand...
Unless the enclosure is listed for use in environmental air handling space, current wording in 300.22(C)(3) is what prohibits this now, which I'm sure is what you are questioning but whether it existed back in early 90's.

Not quite word for word the same but I found very similar wording in 300-22(c) in 1987 NEC, so I'd say unless listed for use in environmental air handling space, wasn't allowed then either. 300-22(c) has a lot of same contents as now but not split up into subsections like it is now. There were six exceptions in 1987, now they are mostly integrated into the subsections in one way or another instead of being exceptions.
 
Glennsparky said:
I'll try to answer in good faith. If it's grandfathered, I have no gripe, only an opinion. Fumes from burning plastic has a history of killing people. Not outright, but being incapacitated led to the same result. So, the reason for 300.22 makes sense to me. Especially as the air handler fans the flames and distributes the poison to living and sleeping spaces. Professional ethics puts the burden on me to be involved. To turn a blind eye would be abhorrent. Every person has specialized knowledge that makes getting involved their responsibility. I hope a doctor wouldn't let me drink poison out of ignorance. In my small way, this is on me.
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I believe that modern ventilation systems have fire dampers and the like that shut them down and or closed if the fire alarm system goes off

the building is old enough that your concern is valid, instances like the MGM fire in Las Vegas in 1980 that killed almost a hundred people due to smoke inhalation should not be forgotten so quickly. there is nothing wrong with wanting to make your building safer, even if it is NEC compliant or was so at the time of construction.

That all written, a single plastic disconnect in a plenum is not the end of the world. if it's within your ability, change it for a metal one, or relocate it. making sure each room has a functioning smoke detector, has an accurate Fire Escape Plan posted on the door, that every tenant has functioning fire extinguishers, all emergency and exit lighting is there and has the proper backups , etc. will go several magnitudes of order further toward safety than 1 PVC box in some ductwork.
 
Is your application in a duct for environmental air 300.22(B), or other spaces also used for environmental air 300.22(C)?

B doesn't really address enclosures just wiring methods permitted - but for most part electrical items are only permitted in B applications if the item is directly acting upon the contained air in some manner.
 
Glennsparky said:
Thank you, kwired, for digging out an '87 NEC, and for your time to read it and answer.



300.22(B).
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What I looked at in 87 was 300-22(c) and is still basically 300.22(C) with only minor changes.

I don't recall anything concerning enclosures in (B) now or in 87. So not sure how to answer other then is the item in question directely acting upon the contained air? if not it can't be in the duct anyway. A disconnect probably doesn't act on the contained air. It likely can easily be outside the duct near the component it feeds in most cases. Exception may be a really large duct you can actually walk into, but it would have to be for environmental air only and contain no other equipment.
 
No, it's not directly acting on the contained air.

kwired said:
... I don't recall anything concerning enclosures in (B) now or in 87. ...
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Spent some time with the codebook. Now, I see what you mean. It's time for me to set this problem aside. The AHJ is at Casselberry city hall. I'll be there soon enough. They can look at the pictures and I'll take whatever they say as the final word.:)
 
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