Apartment load on house panel

Grouch

Grouch

Senior Member
Location
New York, NY
I'm being asked if I can connect a hot water heater that serves an apartment to the building's house panel. Metering wise, this is an issue, but is there any code section that prohibits this?

Per the 2020 NYC energy code:
R404.2 Electrical energy consumption (Mandatory). In all buildings having individual dwelling units, provisions shall be made to determine the electrical energy consumed by each unit by separately metering individual dwelling units.

Per the NEC, sections 210.25 (A) and (B):
(A) Dwelling Unit Branch Circuits. Branch circuits in each dwelling unit shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit.
(B) Common Area Branch Circuits. Branch circuits required for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other needs for public or common areas of a two-family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multi-occupancy building shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

I don't see anything in these sections that prohibits this. Is there another section?
 
There is a potential problem. The reason the code requires separate panels for each dwelling unit is so that the tenant has access to his own power. What happens if the circuit breaker for the hot water heater trips or is turned off? How does the tenant get access to reset the breaker?
 
gadfly56 said:
There is a potential problem. The reason the code requires separate panels for each dwelling unit is so that the tenant has access to his own power. What happens if the circuit breaker for the hot water heater trips or is turned off? How does the tenant get access to reset the breaker?
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Agreed.

But from the sections that I posted, nothing says that all circuit breakers within the dwelling unit have to be connected to that dwelling unit's panel. Or is it stated, and I'm not reading it properly?
 
If the landlord or building owner wants to provide the hot water for that apartment, they are free to do so. Just don't think that they can charge the tenant for it.

-Hal
 
Why are you heating hot water? 😉

It sounds like violation of that first section to me, unless you put a meter on the water heater. Without a meter on the water heater, you can't determine the "electrical energy consumed by each unit".
 
electrofelon said:
It sounds like violation of that first section to me, unless you put a meter on the water heater. Without a meter on the water heater, you can't determine the "electrical energy consumed by each unit".
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I should have asked- where is this water heater located? In the unit or outside the unit?

-Hal
 
Here's what I found

https://utilityproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Shared-Meter-Law-1231131.pdf

1. Apportionment Agreement in Lieu of Eliminating Shared Meter Condition
There are three circumstances under which the owner is not obligated to eliminate the
condition, but may instead enter into a written agreement with the tenant (and any third parties,
such as other affected tenants) for apportionment of the cost of the shared meter service. The
three circumstances are: (1) the existence of a legal impediment; (2) extraordinary cost; or (3)
minimal use.22 Each will be described below.

Based on what I'm reading as long as there is an agreement there is no issue
 
A “shared meter” is a utility meter that measures gas, electricity or steam service to a tenant’s dwelling, and to areas outside the dwelling, with the tenant paying for service to both areas.1 Simply put, residential tenants whose utility meters measure consumption inside and outside their homes, have a shared meter. Service outside tenants’ dwellings may include service to equipment that is used for the benefit of the building.2 For example, a hot water heater or furnace may be located inside a tenant’s apartment, but provide hot water and heat to other apartments or common areas of the building
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Nice try. You have a tenant's water heater fed from the landlord's or house meter. NOT a shared water heater fed from the tenant's meter.

The Shared Meter Law requires owners of rental dwellings to eliminate any shared meter condition, or to place the utility service in the owner’s name. The provisions of the Shared Meter Law may not be waived by owners, tenants or utilities.
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-Hal
 
hbiss said:
Nice try. You have a tenant's water heater fed from the landlord's or house meter. NOT a shared water heater fed from the tenant's meter.



-Hal
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Yea... but my point is if it's allowed that way, why would they not allow it vice versa? Makes no difference

gadfly56 said:
There is a potential problem. The reason the code requires separate panels for each dwelling unit is so that the tenant has access to his own power. What happens if the circuit breaker for the hot water heater trips or is turned off? How does the tenant get access to reset the breaker?
Click to expand...

Well technically I do see superintendents live in buildings where they supervise, if they are there 24/7 then tenant has access to the breaker but they got to contact the superintendent
 
The NYC code comittee says it's ok if you supply electric ovens with PLP (house) panel. This can be applied to your situation.:

https://www.nyc.gov/site/buildings/codes/ecric-code-interpretations-2023.page

Section 250.24 – (12/6/2023)​


I have a four-unit co-op building in Brooklyn. The four occupants are the owners of their apartment. The building is owned by a LLC that all four are principals of. There are four tenant meters and one PLP. The tenant meters are the responsibility of each individual owner of that apartment and the PLP is the LLC’s responsibility that they all pay. Previously there was a common area gas meter that fed all four apartments that the LLC was paying. They are abandoning gas cooking and going electric. I upgraded the PLP service and provided 50A circuits to each apartment from the PLP panel. 210.25(B) talks about powering circuitry from dwelling unit to common area but does not note the reverse. To run these from each individual panel would be massive. Upgrade all four meters, all risers, the panels are on the left side of the building and kitchens on the right. We are talking major damage throughout the building.


Question; Does article 210.25(B) pertain to branch circuits from PLP panels feeding an outlet in a dwelling unit?


No, EC 210.25(B) does not pertain to branch circuits from PLP panels feeding an outlet in a dwelling unit. The common area PLP panel shall be accessible to all owners. Signage should be provided in the apartment panel and main service disconnect switches to indicate that the ovens are being fed from the PLP located in the common area.
 
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Grouch1980 said:
I'm being asked if I can connect a hot water heater that serves an apartment to the building's house panel. Metering wise, this is an issue, but is there any code section that prohibits this?

Per the 2020 NYC energy code:
R404.2 Electrical energy consumption (Mandatory). In all buildings having individual dwelling units, provisions shall be made to determine the electrical energy consumed by each unit by separately metering individual dwelling units.
Click to expand...
You need to specify YOUR jurisdiction.
It matters.

Look up RUBS, Ratio Utility Billing Systems.
The other alternative is submetering: you can save quite a bit by installing a single heat pump tank water heater on the house panel, then measuring the flow to each unit.
 
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