Apprentice needs help with multiwire branch circuits.

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kevinware

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, KY
Ok everyone I need clarification on multiwire branch circuits. My concern is the size of the grounded (white) conductor. I am relocating office module furniture and the circuits supplying the modules are as follows: There are three 20 amp single pole branch circuits #12 THHN wires and one #12 grounded (white) wire being used, even though the module has the capability to have three separate grounded conductors (white, gray, gray/black). Looking at article 210.4 I can see where multiwire circuits are allowed and 210.4 (C) tells me to supply only line-to-neutral loads. Again my concern is the size of the grounded (white) wire back to the sub-panel. With the present configuration, shouldn't my white wire be sized larger than #12 THHN? If I have three #12 THHN wires coming from three single pole breakers then theoretically I could have 16x3=48A on my grounded (white) wire trying to return back to the sub-panel......Am I just way off base?


Thanks for all your help,

Kevin
 
Re: Apprentice needs help with multiwire branch circuits.

kevin,
modular furniture is pre wired to accomidate different wiring methods. since most or many of the loads used within this type furniture call for "dedicated" circuits the manufacturer provides separate neutrals for each circuit plus a common ground conductor (green). the system you are relocating is being fed by a multiwire branch circuit ---three hots and a common neutral and a common ground conductor. you will have no other choice than to splice the single neutral incoming conductor to the three individual neutral conductors of the furniture, then the ground and each hot conductor to the appropriate furniture circuit. this will work--but it is not the recommended method by most computer manufacturers. the first instruction is to connect this equipment to a dedicated circuit --you do not have one in that module. so the typical set up is a computer -- printer -- fax. and maybe two or three desks powered by this same multiwire branch circuit. what sometimes occurs is due to the instantainious current flow on the common neutral conductor and the resistance to clear that current back to the source, it effects the voltage between the other circuits being fed by this same common neutral and data can be lost and/or connections disconnected within the computer equipment.

another, issue here is harmonic currents, which can cause the same effect due to the neutral currents not cancelling each other out due to the difference in their frequency at the common point which would be the module's neutral splice. years ago much of the modules were constructed with what was called "super-neutrals" or number ten neutral conductors within the furniture module. harmonic problems are on the decline since computerized equipment is manufacturered differently today.

on a standard multiwired branch circuit with normal loads the common neutral carries the maximum unbalanced load between all phase currents. if "a" carried 10 amps and "b" carried 15 amps, and "c" carried 15 amps --- the neutral conductor would carry the maximum unbalanced betwen all phases or 5 amps....

the correct method for computerized equipment for office furniture modules is dedicated circuits---separate neutrals for each circuit and a common ground!! my .02!
 
Re: Apprentice needs help with multiwire branch circuits.

Charlie, in your example the neutral would be carrying 8.67 amps (excluding any nonlinear issues)

Kevin, if all three phases were equal at 16 amps your neutral load would be zero. (once again excluding nonlinear issues)

Roger
 
Re: Apprentice needs help with multiwire branch circuits.

Roger, I also come up with 5 amps.

I= Sqaure root of (A^+B^+C^)-(AB+BC+CA)

(100+225+225)-(150+225+150)=
550-525=25
Sqaure root of 25= 5 amps total nuetral current.
 
Re: Apprentice needs help with multiwire branch circuits.

Ryan, this is a case of where I should have listened in addition classes. For some reason I added another 50 amps to the first side of the equation (I don't know why) 600 amps DOH! :eek:

Must have been in a hurry to get out of the office.

My appology to Charlie and Kevin.

Roger
 
Re: Apprentice needs help with multiwire branch circuits.

Originally posted by roger:
Ryan, this is a case of where I should have listened in addition classes.
I know the feeling!

Must have been in a hurry to get out of the office.
I know that feeling even more! In fact, I am trying t oget out of the office right now :(
 
Re: Apprentice needs help with multiwire branch circuits.

just as a note, each phase conductor has to be on a different phase, as in 1 on "A" another on "B" the last on "C" phase. If you were to find 3 empty breakers in a panel and they were all on "B" phase and each phase was carrying 15 amps, than yes you would have a 45 amp draw on the grounded conductor. If it was a single phase (2 hots and a grounded) system, you could only use 2 hots on different phases with your grounded conductor.
 
Re: Apprentice needs help with multiwire branch circuits.

Thanks everyone for the input. Looks like I need to hit the math some more. I didn't even think about it being 3 phase it is 208Y/120V. Kind of embarrassing HAHAHA!! Thanks for setting me straight. I really enjoy learning from everyone in this forum.

Thanks,
Kevin
 
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