joeyww12000
Senior Member
- Location
- Chatsworth GA
What in your opinions would be the definition of an apprentice and a journeyman?
Apprentice VS Journeyman
- Thread starter joeyww12000
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
In my area a license and the legal ability to work unsupervised.
IMO, an apprenticeship is a recognized training program, be it the IBEW or ABC or some other program sponsored or acknowledged by the state. If you're not in one of these programs you're just a helper. Complete the program and you're a JW. That's not to say you can't become a qualified electrician without the benefit of one of these programs, but it's harder to define the point where you might become an "electrician" rather than a "helper".
Ben Franklin
Banned
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
A journeyman had once been an apprentice, while an apprentice is yet to be a journeyman.
I found work as an apprentice printer before the governor of Pennsylvania, Sir William Keith, whom promised to set up a business for me if I would travel to London and buy fonts and printing equipment. Unluckily though, the governor went back on his word; leaving me in London for several months doing print work.
I found work as an apprentice printer before the governor of Pennsylvania, Sir William Keith, whom promised to set up a business for me if I would travel to London and buy fonts and printing equipment. Unluckily though, the governor went back on his word; leaving me in London for several months doing print work.
charlietuna
Senior Member
I had my County Journeyman's license when i was a second apprentice and my boss teamed me up with an unlicensed journeyman since the county required a JW on each job. I was still considered an apprentice. I had my County masters when i was a fourth year apprentice, but i was still an apprentice until i passed the IBEW's Journeyman's exam.
I see this in Michigan all the time. Traveling electricians come to Michigan (or use to when there was work) the State requires everyone working in the trade to be licensed. Many traveling electricians have journy or masters licenses from their state but Michigan does not use reciprocity on licensing. So what happens is the traveler's register with the state as an apprentice get an apprentice card and work under a journeyman, even though they may be twice the electrician as the journeyman that they work under.
We hear about protectionist trade policies between countries, this is a protectionist labor policy on the state level. If they had reciprocity for an appropriate fee it would be more reasonable. I believe California has a similar policy there for the PE license, but I'm not sure if the years of experience must be under a California PE or if they will accept experience under a PE from another state. Either way you have to take the California test.
Most of the travelers are IBEW electricians and they get paid the prevailing union wage for the license that they have. They may get formans wages, jiw wages or apprentice wages. The apprentice card allows them to work in Michigan. If they want they can take the state exam but by the time it can be scheduled the job may be done and their gone. As far as a merit shop electrician it is the same as far as the state goes. The pay would be negotiated between the employer and the electrician, the state has no control over the wage. Except for min wage.
Michigan is currently looking into reciprocity as far as licensing. I don't know where it's going yet .
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
I did pretty much the same thing except I never served a formal apprenticeship.
Yeah why would you try to better yourself, seems a waste to me, I mean hard work and licensing never got me anything.
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ishium 80439
Senior Member
I agree w/ Iwire. Generally 4 to 5 years in the field w/ concurrent schooling culminating in an exam would mark the transition to journeyman.
This brings up something else I was thinking about the other day and especially relates to states that do not have procedures in place for licensing. I have ran into many people over the years who have said things to the effect of "I don't need a piece of paper to know what I'm doing". Now I have certainly ran into licensed journeyman who weren't worth their weight in dung but I don't know that I have ever met an unlicensed electrician that I would consider a well rounded quality "mechanic".
I have worked w/ guys that were hard workers, some who were great at one or two particular areas but could not put the whole enchilada together. IMO the drive/will/desire to take that extra step and earn the card shows a commitment that those who do not go that route lack.
As I said I certainly have met licensed JW's who were all but useless so the card is not some magic bullet but I do view them with respect. I'm sure there are one or two examples around to contradict this but I feel they would be the exception that proves the rule.
This brings up something else I was thinking about the other day and especially relates to states that do not have procedures in place for licensing. I have ran into many people over the years who have said things to the effect of "I don't need a piece of paper to know what I'm doing". Now I have certainly ran into licensed journeyman who weren't worth their weight in dung but I don't know that I have ever met an unlicensed electrician that I would consider a well rounded quality "mechanic".
I have worked w/ guys that were hard workers, some who were great at one or two particular areas but could not put the whole enchilada together. IMO the drive/will/desire to take that extra step and earn the card shows a commitment that those who do not go that route lack.
As I said I certainly have met licensed JW's who were all but useless so the card is not some magic bullet but I do view them with respect. I'm sure there are one or two examples around to contradict this but I feel they would be the exception that proves the rule.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Depending on the job market, an apprentice is someone who makes $35.00/hour less than the journeyman.
It doesn't magically make you better but it sure does seem to get you more $ in most places.
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