arc didnt trip

[normbac]

got a call to troubleshoot, homeowner got shocked strong when barefoot in bathroom and touched light switch. (appareently the screw on plate cover) Home is new and on arc fault, I was thinking maybe an equipment grnd touching a neutral somewhere, but wouldnt that trip the arc breaker? not sure where to look maybe outlets or can lights.
Any input appreciated. TIA

 

[e57]

Now why would one think an AFCI on any circuit would save them getting shocked?!?!?!?

Sure - most have some types of GFCI protection - but that too won't exactly save you from getting shocked when barefoot on a bathroom floor....

Also - did someone check to see if it were not the floor that is energized?????

 

[Buck Parrish]

I was thinking maybe an equipment grnd touching a neutral somewhere,

That would be a good place to start. IMO:smile: The arc fault should have tripped if wired correctly. The older ones might not. They just protect the hot from arcing and not the neutral. The new ones are called combination arc fault. They protect the hot and neutral. Some people get it confused for a combo arc and gfci on one breaker. I'm not sure they make that kind yet.
The bathroom does not require arc protection.

 

[e57]

Energized EGC - plumbing - stone tile via floor warmer - What part of a light switch is metalic to get shocked from???

Check voltage from the mounting screws of the plate - to all points that could get energized....

Also - did she seem loopy or say stoned... or excitable? She could be just neurotic and "Shocked" is a metephore for "I need professional help - Oh I'll call an Electrician" :grin: Not kidding they ARE out there....

 

[normbac]

That would be a good place to start. IMO:smile: The arc fault should have tripped if wired correctly. The older ones might not. They just protect the hot from arcing and not the neutral. The new ones are called combination arc fault. They protect the hot and neutral. Some people get it confused for a combo arc and gfci on one breaker. I'm not sure they make that kind yet.
The bathroom does not require arc protection.

Apparently it is wired from the master bedroom owner said he got worried and shut the breaker off to the master and it killed the bath lights will find out tomorrow just wasnt sure about arc not tripping Thanks for info

 

[normbac]

Energized EGC - plumbing - stone tile via floor warmer - What part of a light switch is metalic to get shocked from???

Check voltage from the mounting screws of the plate - to all points that could get energized....

Also - did she seem loopy or say stoned... or excitable? She could be just neurotic and "Shocked" is a metephore for "I need professional help - Oh I'll call an Electrician" :grin: Not kidding they ARE out there....

No worked for them before she sounds like she got hit hard no floor warmer

 

[quogueelectric]

I have always found that the plumber cuts into the elctric floor heating mat when cutting the toilet holes when a shady gc or homeowner tries to bypass the electrician for a few hundred bucks. Tough love learn them how expensive it is to chop up thier new tile floor and put it in right. I would not splice broken conductors burried in a mud floor why would I take on huge bad liability I dont know anyone who I like enough to loose everything I have worked for to try to make thier mistake work. This is why we get the big bucks.

 

[quogueelectric]

I have always found that the plumber cuts into the elctric floor heating mat when cutting the toilet holes when a shady gc or homeowner tries to bypass the electrician for a few hundred bucks. Tough love learn them how expensive it is to chop up thier new tile floor and put it in right. I would not splice broken conductors burried in a mud floor why would I take on huge bad liability I dont know anyone who I like enough to loose everything I have worked for to try to make thier mistake work. This is why we get the big bucks.

Just missed previous post see if ckt is clear and put it on gfci but be sure to connect the ground.:smile:

 

[jim dungar]

Now why would one think an AFCI on any circuit would save them getting shocked?!?!?!?

Sure - most have some types of GFCI protection - but that too won't exactly save you from getting shocked when barefoot on a bathroom floor....

GFCI is a specific term reserved for 5mA trip devices. AFCI normally are 30mA trip.

 

[normbac]

Just missed previous post see if ckt is clear and put it on gfci but be sure to connect the ground.:smile:

wouldnt it trip gfci if current flows on eg

 

[Dennis Alwon]

wouldnt it trip gfci if current flows on eg

Yes but there may not be current on the egc. As stated earlier it is possible that there is a nail in a piece of nm cable that is energizing the floor. When you tough the plate screws you are getting grounded and thus completing the circuit. Perhaps they were touching the sink or the medicine cabinet that was energized in a similar fashion.

 

[LarryFine]

This sounds like a job for . . .

An extension cord plugged into a known-properly-wired receptacle, and a voltmeter or a wiggy.

This way you can check everything against a known hot conductor and a known grounded conductor.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

That would be a good place to start. IMO:smile: The arc fault should have tripped if wired correctly. The older ones might not. They just protect the hot from arcing and not the neutral. The new ones are called combination arc fault. They protect the hot and neutral. Some people get it confused for a combo arc and gfci on one breaker. I'm not sure they make that kind yet.
The bathroom does not require arc protection.

Your statement about the functions of the AFCI are not correct. The original type only looked at parallel arcing faults with a current above 75 amps and ground faults. The newer combination types look at parallel arcing faults with a current above 75 amps, series arcing faults with a current above 5 amps and ground faults. In both cases there is GFP protection of 30 mA or so, not low enough to provide shock protection.