arc fault and plasma tv

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canadian

Member
Location
Canada
I wired new camp last fall and have since installed 4 plasma tvs.Two 28 inch ones were on same arc fault breaker and tripped when the second one was powered up.Happened a lot so i put regular breaker in :cool: and was on my way feeling a little guilty that there might be another issue.This was months ago .Forgot to mention that the same day I had installed a 42 inch in master bedroom without incident.Today customer called and said 42 inch is tripping arc fault(different circuit).Is this a known issue?I guess I'll have to make another trip out to camp to swap arc fault for regular breaker.Guilt has gone away now :roll:
 
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stud696981

Senior Member
Re: arc fault and plasma tv

Sometimes there has been tripping with neutrals and grounds contacting each other. If this is the only thing plugged in causing it and not other stuff I would say it's nuisance tripping and not a fault in your work.

I haven't heard much good about the AFCI's, I have heard of a lot of nuisance tripping with proper wiring.

Just as an example, I was talking with another EC recently. He said that he put a few in his new house for 24 hours. I asked him why only 24 hours. He said that he just put them in for inspection and had problems running a vaccum cleaner in his bedroom so he decided to sell them on the next job.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: arc fault and plasma tv

If you still have access to the camp, I would remove both the hot and neutral from the breaker. Then using a continuity tester of some kind see if there is any continuity between either the hot or neutral to the ground buss. If there is then you will have to find out why.
There a few things that will cause an AFCI to trip when a load is applied:

1. A neutral to ground connection on the load side of the circuit.
2. The AFCI circuit is sharing the neutral with another circuit.
3. The AFCI's neutral has been inadvertently been connected with a neutral from another circuit.
4. A TVSS type device is being used on the AFCI circuit and the MOV's in it are at their end of life and are leaking to ground from neutral.
5. The TV's could have a neutral to ground leakage through the coax. Try un hooking the coax and see if they still trip.

Removing the code required AFCI's, could put you and your company at risk of a law suit if a fire broke out and the cause was a failure of having a AFCI in the circuit!!!

There could be a fire hazard if one or more of the above mention items are the reason the AFCI is tripping.

Trouble shoot it but never remove a device intended to protect life and property. Always find the cause even if it is the AFCI that causing the problem notify the manufacture and UL of the problem when the cause is found.

UL can be contacted by going to there web site at www.ul.com. They have a page to submit problems.
 
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stud696981

Senior Member
Re: arc fault and plasma tv

Hurk27, I wasn't suggesting removing the AFCI's from the customers panel. I was just stating that there have been cases of a 100% properly installed system and there is nuisance tripping. In reality, (unlike GFCIs) I don't think these devices will actually save many lives or property since they are only installed on new wiring and don't protect cord and plug devices.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: arc fault and plasma tv

Stud I wasn't referring to your post actually your post was not eve there when I started typing mine. :eek:

It was about canadian's statement to removing the AFCI's to fix a problem :eek: that concerned me.
 
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stud696981

Senior Member
Re: arc fault and plasma tv

No problem Hurk...........hopefully they get the bugs worked out of these before they become required in more areas of the home.
 
beanland

beanland

Senior Member
Location
Vancouver, WA
Re: arc fault and plasma tv

A manufacturer's rep told me about AFCIs. They use a complicated mathematical algorithm to determine if the current seen is an arc. Sometimes a load will exhibit the same current and cause the AFCI to trip. This is a known problem with some fluorescent ballasts and vacuum cleaners. Probably a case of where the plasma TV draws current that looks like an arc to the AFCI. Might try installing an RFI filter at the TV to block high-frequency noise from TV power supply from getting to AFCI.
 
tom baker

tom baker

First Chief Moderator & NEC Expert
Staff member
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Occupation
Master Electrician
Re: arc fault and plasma tv

One of the reasons floresent ballasts cause an AFCI to trip is the AFCI has a 30 mA GFP trip (like a GFCI) and ballasts are allowed to have a certain leakage. Too many ballasts cause the AFCI to trip.
 
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william runkle

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
Re: arc fault and plasma tv

Not just too many flourescent luminaires I had one electronic 4 foot single tube strip trip the arc fault when turned off thy use the ground and neutral to discharged to the frame. Question what type of camp is this that have plasma t.v.s?
 
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allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: arc fault and plasma tv

Jim sometimes I am just amazed at what people do.About 6 months ago 3 of our service crews called in sick on this one really busy day.So we the supervisors picked through the calls snd ernt to do our normal duties and these warranty calls.
The sub division Plantation Palms you should know its size you living in the area.This guy closed 6 months prior to this call.call was for a tripping arch fault.in this 4,375 ft home was a huge plasma tv on the wall and a beat up futon with get this 5 gallon jugs upside down and used as end tables :D
There was a box for a new vacum and on the top was 18 amps listed.Sure enough I tryed it in the bed room and after 1 or 2 seconds the breaker tripped.Unplugged it and put it on the dining circuit it was fine.
The builders warranty guy was there and I explained the amperage thing and that since it was a brand new vacum the brushes have not seated yet and are causing an arc the afci detected.
The home owner says so what do I DO ? plug it in A 20 AMP circuit and let it run awhile,maybe that will help.If not then get rid of that vacum cleaner that sucks electricity like a 454 big block that has been dropped in a vega :D What next a 20 amp vacum that will suck the flooring up :p
 
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