Arc Fault Circuits

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Riograndeelectric

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Lakewood Colorado
when you install a new lighting outtlet,recptical etc in an existing bedroom that has no Arc Fault circuit and not part of a Remodel. do you add the new outlet with no Arc Fault protection and how do you sell the customer on the high price of installing a new circuit for 1 light or Outlet or do you install the new outlet with no Arc Fault Protection
 
Hard Question Check With You Inspection Agency. Around Here An Inspector Would Not Require It If Your Just Adding On One Outlet. But I Still Offer It To The Home Owner As An Option. I Tell Them I Think Its A Good Idea For Safty Reasons (and It Is).
 
Rio,

In Minnesota, the State ruled that any new "outlet", 15 or 20 Amp, 120 Volt, installed in a bedroom, must be supplied by a circuit protected with an AFCI.

I sell it by explaining the features of the AFCI and figure the lowest cost way to get it to cover the new outlet. The homeowner (or whoever pays the bill) then makes their choice to have me do the work, or not.

As R2006 notes, check with your inspector for that area to find out what the local requirements are. Article 210.12 is enforced a number of different ways, and the ruling is done at the jurisdiction level.
 
The 2005 NEC states 120 volt 15 and 20 amp outlets installed in dwelling bedrooms must have the branch circuit protected by ark fault. So if your area has adopted the latest version of the code then you are stuck with it unless the local or state has ammended that. An inspector may not ask for it, or tell you it is not required for just one, but unless the area has ammended the code he will be wrong about that.
 
I am famliar with the requirment of codes for AFCI . I was asking for Opions on wheather or not you would install AFCI circuit for 1 new lighting outlet in an existing bedroom I have spoken with a couple of the inspectors who have said if you are not pulling a permit then they do not care.
 
In MA, you would be required to pull a permit for this work and the outlet will be required to have AFCI protection.

But I'd agree with the inspectors you spoke with who said "if you are not pulling a permit, then they don't care.":D
 
Rio, since you are familar with the code, then may I suggest that in situations such as the one in your question , to just follow the code. If you are adding just one surface emt outlet on a job, do you strap the conduit or figure the cost of installing the straps is too high to justify the time and expense? Do you bother with in use outlet covers on wet location receptacle outlets if it is just one you are installing, or do you only comply when it is several you are doing? I allready know the answer to both of my questions is of course you do it the right way. Me, I tell the homeowner that they are going to have to pay for an ark fault breaker install cause that is what is required by the code. If there is no permit or inspection, it still is required by code to install an ark fault. If the existing branch circuit is multiwire, then Cuttler Hammer makes a two pole ark fault. If the existing panel does not allow for Cuttler Hammer then a small sub panel gets installed that does. Cut and dry.
 
thanks for every ones input. I have had custoemrs in the past whom I have given a bid to for a new bedroom outlet . I bid it figuring in arc fault protection but have had a few customers say the other Electricians were not figuring in arc fault in there bid.

Cutler Hammer also makes a clasiified arcfault breaker that will fit into siemens, Ge,Murry, etc.
 
If you were adding an outlet in the bathroom, would you have it protected by a GFCI? Same thing, new work must meet present code.
 
Cutler Hammer also makes a clasiified arcfault breaker that will fit into siemens, Ge,Murry, etc
Click to expand...

But not FPE, ITE pushmatic, Challenger, Westinghouse(even though CH is the new owner of both, and they would fit nicely, ) or them really old buggers with the fuses inside the breaker.:)
 
ICH !! FPE. time for a servcie change.. The Ch clasified will work in westinghouse plug in type as well as challenger. . FPE is Just plain nasty like Zinsco breakers.

I am working on a old 1950s wharehouse remodel with a pushatic panel and an FPE panel. Pushmatic is a Great Panel but the panel cover was lost some time a go so along with the FPE panel out it goes. oh yea and it is a 3 pahse delta service. all panels are single phase. only 3 phase are RTU'S and the service is so un Balanced.
 
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