ARC Fault,Loop hole?

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keesha

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Just a twist:

210.12.(B)- Arc fault-For dwelling units, straight forward.

210.18-Guest suites and guest rooms.
If they have permenant cooking (kitchen) they fall under "dwelling unit".210.12.(B). Understood.

Now, forward to 210.60-guest suites,dorms etc.assuming no "kitchen"provisions.
It only states to be in accordance with 210.52.
But 210.52 or 210.60, makes no referance back to 210.12(B).


So, My question is: In a guest suite,dorm rm etc.(210.60) With no "kitchen",
Do these ckts require AFCI?

I see a loop hole. Or is it tunnel vision?:-?
 
I think your vision is correct but whether it is an oversight by the CMP , I don't know.

This is an interesting question since arc fault is excluded in kitchen , etc in the 2008 then why would it matter if the guest room had permanent provisions for cooking. I believe this is very short sighted.
 
keesha said:
Have you ever wanted something soo bad,you'll do anything?
Only to find you missed something important along the way?:roll:
Click to expand...

Not me, I'm perfect...

Perhaps it was missed but as it stands now there is no need to arc fault those units. I am sure it will come up in the next cycle and if it were a deliberate omission then it won't go anywhere.
 
This was almost changed in the 2008. The definition of dwelling unit was going to be revised to eliminate "permanent" from the phrase "permanent facilities for cooking". It passed the proposal stage. I made a negative comment on it, and it continued to pass. I made a call to a friend of mine on the TCC to explain that it was not substantiated to require AFCIs and everything else for every hotel with a microwave, so the TCC put a stop to it and made them "hold" the proposal.
 
ryan_618 said:
This was almost changed in the 2008. The definition of dwelling unit was going to be revised to eliminate "permanent" from the phrase "permanent facilities for cooking". It passed the proposal stage. I made a negative comment on it, and it continued to pass. I made a call to a friend of mine on the TCC to explain that it was not substantiated to require AFCIs and everything else for every hotel with a microwave, so the TCC put a stop to it and made them "hold" the proposal.
Click to expand...

So what is your take on this. The CMP overlooked the arc fault deal in these rooms?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
So what is your take on this. The CMP overlooked the arc fault deal in these rooms?
Click to expand...

Honestly...I think the manufacturers have overtaken the process, and they simply ignored their own requirements for accepting proposals. A proposal must have a substantiation, according to the NFPA rules governing comittee projects. This proposal had no technical substantiation, and the panel continued to pass it anyway.
 
Ryan said:
I made a call to a friend of mine on the TCC to explain that it was not substantiated to require AFCIs and everything else for every hotel with a microwave, so the TCC put a stop to it and made them "hold" the proposal.
Click to expand...
It's nice having friends in high places. :cool: :D
 
210.18-Guest suites and guest rooms.
If they have permenant cooking (kitchen) they fall under "dwelling unit".210.12.(B).



Now, forward to 210.60-guest suites,dorms etc.assuming no "kitchen"provisions.
It only states to be in accordance with 210.52.
But 210.52 or 210.60, makes no referance back to 210.12(B).
 
ryan_618 said:
Honestly...I think the manufacturers have overtaken the process, and they simply ignored their own requirements for accepting proposals. A proposal must have a substantiation, according to the NFPA rules governing comittee projects. This proposal had no technical substantiation, and the panel continued to pass it anyway.
Click to expand...

That just gives me warm fuzzy feelings about the code making process nowadays. :roll:
 
SSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH..now don't allow them to notice this discrepancy I do allot of the above mentioned work so don,t let them change it..the substantiation was only on residential no commerical..dont give them ideas they need no new ones..
 
cooking or not

cooking or not

keesha said:
210.18-Guest suites and guest rooms.
If they have permenant cooking (kitchen) they fall under "dwelling unit".210.12.(B).



Now, forward to 210.60-guest suites,dorms etc.assuming no "kitchen"provisions.
It only states to be in accordance with 210.52.
But 210.52 or 210.60, makes no referance back to 210.12(B).
Click to expand...
What does cooking have to do with it? Sure I know a dwelling has provisions for cooking. But what about all the "human lives" across the nation at any given moment that are sleeping in motels/hotels, areas without cooking, that are not protected by afcis!
 
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