arc fault outlets

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marcs11

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Could some one please explain what the following means and how to prove it. Also does this mean I can run RX from the panel to the first outlet if I meet the footage requirements, from Article 210-12 (4)

d. The combination of the branch-circuit overcurrent
device and outlet branch-circuit AFCI shall be identified
as meeting the requirements for a system
combination–type AFCI and shall be listed as such.
 
I have a headache.:(

Read 210.12(A)(4)(d). Did not really understand it.

So Google time.

First 210.12(A)(4) was deleted. Then it was put back.

Okay, Go to NFPA and read proposals, comments, and such. Headache gets worse.

Best I can figure: This section was passed because no listing exists for this "system combination" or such, so allowing it is harmless.

Useless drivel argued back and forth with UL abstaining, saying that it cannot list that which does not exist.

Need more aspirin.
 
jumper said:
I have a headache.:(

Read 210.12(A)(4)(d). Did not really understand it.

So Google time.

First 210.12(A)(4) was deleted. Then it was put back.

Okay, Go to NFPA and read proposals, comments, and such. Headache gets worse.

Best I can figure: This section was passed because no listing exists for this "system combination" or such, so allowing it is harmless.

Useless drivel argued back and forth with UL abstaining, saying that it cannot list that which does not exist.

Need more aspirin.
Click to expand...


Headache:slaphead: YES You are more persistent then me. I googled Leviton found their requiring conduit to the first outlet in the video. I don't understand why we don't just use a combination breaker an be done with it. All these options are confusing. My point is that the wire from the OCD need to be arc fault protected. Thus the requirement for installing arc fault on extensions over 6ft. I say romex is NOT allowed from the OCD to the first outlet.
Thanks send me a bill for the aspirin.
 
marcs11 said:
Headache:slaphead: YES You are more persistent then me. I googled Leviton found their requiring conduit to the first outlet in the video. I don't understand why we don't just use a combination breaker an be done with it. All these options are confusing. My point is that the wire from the OCD need to be arc fault protected. Thus the requirement for installing arc fault on extensions over 6ft. I say romex is NOT allowed from the OCD to the first outlet.
Thanks send me a bill for the aspirin.
Click to expand...

Because older panels dont have AFCI breakers available/made, so if you need AFCI, you either get a receptacle, add a new AFCI capable subpanel, or do a panel change. The first is the least expensive option most times.
 
marcs11 said:
...I don't understand why we don't just use a combination breaker an be done with it. ....
Click to expand...
Please try to avoid using the term "combination" for a combined AFCI and GFCI in one device. They are "dual function" devices.
The term combination or combo is already in use for AFCI breakers that (supposedly) detect both parallel and series arc faults.
 
GoldDigger said:
Please try to avoid using the term "combination" for a combined AFCI and GFCI in one device. They are "dual function" devices.
The term combination or combo is already in use for AFCI breakers that (supposedly) detect both parallel and series arc faults.
Click to expand...
Golddigger,
I'm not sure marcs11 meant a dual function breaker or Outlet Branch Circuit device. It reads to me that " -type " was dropped from the term "combination-type"

Marcs11,
Your profile says you are on the 2011 NEC. It's not clear to me whether you are doing a receptacle device replacement (406.4(D)(4)), or whether you are installing a new branch circuit (210.12(A), or whether you are doing a modification / extension of an existing branch circuit (210.12(B)). Each of these three situations and Code rules use an Outlet Branch Circuit AFCI device differently.
 
al hildenbrand said:
Golddigger,
I'm not sure marcs11 meant a dual function breaker or Outlet Branch Circuit device. It reads to me that " -type " was dropped from the term "combination-type"

Marcs11,
Your profile says you are on the 2011 NEC. It's not clear to me whether you are doing a receptacle device replacement (406.4(D)(4)), or whether you are installing a new branch circuit (210.12(A), or whether you are doing a modification / extension of an existing branch circuit (210.12(B)). Each of these three situations and Code rules use an Outlet Branch Circuit AFCI device differently.
Click to expand...


Sorry!! It was 2011 when I joined I'm using 2017. To clarify the installation is new work. The real question, is can you run romex from a standard circuit breaker to a AFCI receptacle. I do not see anywhere in the code that this is permitted in a new installation.
Thanks for everyone input
 
marcs11 said:
I'm using 2017. To clarify the installation is new work. The real question, is can you run romex from a standard circuit breaker to a AFCI receptacle. I do not see anywhere in the code that this is permitted in a new installation.
Click to expand...
I agree with you.
 
I just wrote a code proposal to drop that part of the section as well as the one before it. (both 3 and 4). Those units mention in 3 and 4 do not even exist so just ignore them
 
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