arc-fault protection in bathrooms

[chicago-tony]

1999 nec. Can you have the bathroom fixtures and exhaust fan protected by arc-fault? Example (master bedroom receptacles and master bathroom fixtures (over the basin) and exhaust fan on the same branch circuit. When the inspecter tested the master bedroom with an arc-fault tester the receptacles in the masterbedroom and the fixtues over the basin and exhaust fan trip in the masterbathroom. He told us that the lights over the basin must remain on. Note there is a 20 amp branch circuit to supply the bathroom receptacles. Is there any where in the 1999 nec that states the fixtures over the basin must remain on and a bedroom that is proteced by arc-fault can't have fixtures (bathroom,hall fixtures ect.) on the same branch circuit that is protected by arc-fault.

 

[roger]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Tony, there is no requirement in the 99 NEC for AFCI protection. Is this a Chicago issue?

PS read your PM's

Roger

 

[jro]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Did the inspector give a reason for wanting the basin lights to stay on when the AFCI trips, and you are right Tony makes no sense to me, next he will be asking for emergency lighting in the kitchen.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Rogger,
210.12 in the '99 code requires AFCI protection for all branch circuits that serve 125 volt 15 or 20 amp receptacle outlets in dwelling unit bedrooms. In the '02 code the word "receptacle" was deleted from the rule.

Tony,
There is no code rule in the NEC that would prohibit the use of AFCI protected circuits for the bathroom lights and fan.

Don

 

[tom baker]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Cutler Hammer makes a AFCI/GFCI combo breaker, its not that much more than a AFCI ckt breaker.

 

[roger]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Don, you are right, AFCI's would not be required per the 99 code before 2002. After 2002 AFCI's would be required for bedroom receptacles only.

I should open the book before posting.

Roger

 

[eprice]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

roger,

I believe was Don is saying is that per the 99 NEC, AFCI protection is required, but for 125V, 15 or 20 amp bedroom receptacles only. In the 2002 code this was changed to include all 125V, 15 or 20 amp bedroom outlets.

[ June 09, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: eprice ]

 

[roger]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Eprice, the 99 code requirement did not start until 1-1-02. This meant that on 1-1-02 both the 99 and 02 AFCI requirements started at the same time.

Roger

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Roger,
Few cities adopted the 2002 code effective on Jan 1, 2002. Many areas are still using the '99 code.
Don

 

[roger]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

This is true Don, but this doesn't have anything to do with when the 99 AFCI requirement went in to effect. If your city addopted the 99 code on 1-1-99 and is still under the 99 code, then on 1-1-02 you would have been required to start installing AFCI's for bedroom receptacles.

Per the wording of 210-12(b) you wouldn't have had to buy an AFCI breaker until 1-1-02.

In otherwowds 210-12(b) was not a method until 1-1-02 in the 99 cycle.

If a city has addopted the 02 code, then effective 1-1-02 the bedroom circuits would have to protect all outlets,

In either case, the AFCI requirement went into effect 1-1-02.

Roger

[ June 09, 2003, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Roger,

This meant that on 1-1-02 both the 99 and 02 AFCI requirements started at the same time.

My post is only saying that the '99 and '02 AFCI requirements would take effect on 1/1/02 only if the 2002 NEC was adopted with an effective date of 1/1/02.

Per the wording of 210-12(b) you wouldn't have had to buy an AFCI breaker until 1-1-02.

Correct.

If a city has addopted the 02 code, then effective 1-1-02 the bedroom circuits would have to protect all outlets,

The effective date would only be 1-1-02 if the 2002 code was adopted on that date. The effective date for the AFCI rule in the 2002 code is the date when the governmental unit adopted the 2002 NEC. The effective date for the '99 code AFCI rule is the later of 1/1/02 or the '99 code adoption date.
Don

[ June 09, 2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]

 

[roger]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

I'm Sorry Don, I guess we're in agreement.

 

[kevinpanel2]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

I do not understand your inspectors reasoning. As amember of Code Panel 2 , which covers afci I can tell you he is under the wrong impression Feel free to email me if you have any concerns
kevin Brooks

kevinjbrooks@myvine.com

 

[kevinpanel2]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

It is not going to matter in 2 code cycles all new homes will be required to be either arc fault or gfci or a combo of both in my educated guess

Kevin Brooks Memeber Code panel # 2 NFPA

 

[bennie]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Requiring all homes to install these expensive devices, there had better be credible statistics to substantiate this enormous nation wide expense.

How many fires have they prevented so far?

 

[bennie]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Mr. Brooks: I don't see your name on the 2002 NEC as a member of panel 2. Are you new? What private enterprise do you represent?

 

[hurk27]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

Bennie:

How many fires have they prevented so far?

Wouldn't this be hard to determine if the results are based on something that didnt happen? LOL

 

[bennie]

Re: arc-fault protection in bathrooms

hurk: You are correct I should have stated...How many reports of arc fault devices tripping? The fire department should be involved when a homeowner has a trip from inside the wall.

What is the failure rate? Has Florida been investigated due to the high lightning events?

There should be some hard evidence and numbers before these devices grow in use. Will the performance be worth the cost?

[ June 28, 2003, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: bennie ]