Arc Fault tripping ? Causes ?

[Davebones]

I never had to troubleshoot a Arc Fault breaker or Arc Fault outlet tripping . I just wondered what do you guy's see that causes Arc Fault trips ? Is it mostly wiring inside walls or device's that are plugged in . Mostly when ever I dealt with a GFI it was something with a cord plugged into the circuit . Just wondered what you guys see with the arc faults tripping ...

 

[LarryFine]

My experience with AFCI troubleshooting is that certain lights and switches caused them to trip, probably due to arcing, and usually just swapping it with another existing AFCI breaker in the same panel stopped it.

By coincidence, just two days ago, a customer with a residential elevator had an AFCI breaker that would trip almost every time they tried to use the elevator, which had a separate dedicated 2-pole breaker.

Apparently, the control wiring was on the same 120v circuit as a downstairs guest bedroom. Since they used that room as a den and office, i swapped the AFCI breaker with a standard breaker for an upstairs loft.

 

[tthh]

Had a case where a house had random AFCI trips. Changed all the crappy no-name A19 size CFL's to Philips LED lights and the problem went away.

 

[Fred B]

Have had many times that GC installs that would trip from their tools, would investigate and find multiple points of loose connections or inadequate torque. Tighten everything up and triping stopped. Sometimes have seen a specific appliance would be an issue, if able to identify the product, you could contact the breaker mfg. Several mfg's will modify the software to recognize a particular signature created by that product as long as the product not faulty.

 

[ammklq143]

I never had to troubleshoot a Arc Fault breaker or Arc Fault outlet tripping . I just wondered what do you guy's see that causes Arc Fault trips ? Is it mostly wiring inside walls or device's that are plugged in . Mostly when ever I dealt with a GFI it was something with a cord plugged into the circuit . Just wondered what you guys see with the arc faults tripping ...

Arc fault breakers will trip with a ground fault also, so don't rule that out. They just aren't as sensitive as an actual GFCI, but if you have a ground wire that backed it's way up to a neutral screw, that'll do it. Also, if there's something plugged in that has a ground fault, that can do it too.

 

[ptonsparky]

Universal motors would trip AFCIs. IDK if the AFCI has gotten better, or the motors but that reason has diminished over the years.
My help actually found an extension cord under a rug, under a rocking chair that was tripping one. Imagine that.
Getting the latest vs of the breaker seems to help on those widely random tripping breakers.

 

[Ravenvalor]

Universal motors would trip AFCIs. IDK if the AFCI has gotten better, or the motors but that reason has diminished over the years.
My help actually found an extension cord under a rug, under a rocking chair that was tripping one. Imagine that.
Getting the latest vs of the breaker seems to help on those widely random tripping breakers.

Great info. I was perusing this sight to learn about whether or not it is wise to replace an AFCI every couple of years just to keep it up to date with the newest appliances being used.

FRED QUOTE "Have had many times that GC installs that would trip from their tools, would investigate and find multiple points of loose connections or inadequate torque. Tighten everything up and triping stopped. Sometimes have seen a specific appliance would be an issue, if able to identify the product, you could contact the breaker mfg. Several mfg's will modify the software to recognize a particular signature created by that product as long as the product not faulty."

So I could have the customer do all the work with the manufacturer and then when the new breaker is delivered to the customer I could replace the breaker (theoretically).

 

[Ravenvalor]

My experience with AFCI troubleshooting is that certain lights and switches caused them to trip, probably due to arcing, and usually just swapping it with another existing AFCI breaker in the same panel stopped it.

By coincidence, just two days ago, a customer with a residential elevator had an AFCI breaker that would trip almost every time they tried to use the elevator, which had a separate dedicated 2-pole breaker.

Apparently, the control wiring was on the same 120v circuit as a downstairs guest bedroom. Since they used that room as a den and office, i swapped the AFCI breaker with a standard breaker for an upstairs loft.

Not a liability issue?

 

[ptonsparky]

Not a liability issue?

If you're in business and you worked there, it's a liability issue.

 

[KyleDurham1221]

Not a liability issue?

Replacing afci breakers with standard breakers because you're too lazy to troubleshoot is 100% a liability issue. If the breaker was tripping for it's intended purpose (preventing arcing circuits from reaching combustion heat) and a fire starts in their home, say goodbye to your license or your employment.

 

[retirede]

(preventing arcing circuits from reaching combustion heat)

That’s not not what AFCIs are intended to do, much less able to do.

 

[KyleDurham1221]

That’s not not what AFCIs are intended to do, much less able to

That’s not not what AFCIs are intended to do, much less able to do.

This is the exact purpose of an AFCI breaker. To detect arc faults and open the circuit before they cause fires.

What is an arc fault? A series arc fault is a hot or neutral wire barely separated from itself causing an arc from passing electricity through the air in between.

A parallel arc is the same thing but between the hot and neutral or both hots.

Reading helps a lot

 

[hbiss]

This is the exact purpose of an AFCI breaker. To detect arc faults and open the circuit before they cause fires.

What is an arc fault? A series arc fault is a hot or neutral wire barely separated from itself causing an arc from passing electricity through the air in between.

A parallel arc is the same thing but between the hot and neutral or both hots.

Reading helps a lot

We don't need a lecture by someone who just joined. If reading helps a lot, take the time to search the forum and read the hundreds of pages that were written by our members and experts on the subject of AFCIs, and maybe you too will understand why we consider them the biggest fraud on the American people there ever was by the NEC and manufacturers. You are mistaken if you were led to believe that they work as intended of have even saved one life. All they are is a revenue stream for manufacturers.

You rattled the wrong cage.

-Hal

 

[retirede]

This is the exact purpose of an AFCI breaker. To detect arc faults and open the circuit before they cause fires.

What is an arc fault? A series arc fault is a hot or neutral wire barely separated from itself causing an arc from passing electricity through the air in between.

A parallel arc is the same thing but between the hot and neutral or both hots.

Reading helps a lot

I know what the manufacturers of AFCIs say they do. I also know what they (do not) do in the real world.

 

[KyleDurham1221]

We don't need a lecture by someone who just joined. If reading helps a lot, take the time to search the forum and read the hundreds of pages that were written by our members and experts on the subject of AFCIs, and maybe you too will understand why we consider them the biggest fraud on the American people there ever was by the NEC and manufacturers. You are mistaken if you were led to believe that they work as intended of have even saved one life. All they are is a revenue stream for manufacturers.

You rattled the wrong cage.

-Hal

I know what the manufacturers of AFCIs say they do. I also know what they (do not) do in the real world.

I know what the manufacturers of AFCIs say they do. I also know what they (do not) do in the real world.

Create an electrical arc using a tester on an AFCI circuit in your home and watch the breaker open. This is pretty good evidence no?

 

[retirede]

Create an electrical arc using a tester on an AFCI circuit in your home and watch the breaker open. This is pretty good evidence no?

Several YouTube videos (one by a guy who was part of the IEEE committee that studied AFCIs) demonstrate that they don’t trip when an arc is induced. There are links to that video in some older forum posts.

 

[hillbilly1]

Create an electrical arc using a tester on an AFCI circuit in your home and watch the breaker open. This is pretty good evidence no?

When afci’s first came out, I took a CE class for my license. The instructor set up a test board creating an arc to test an afci breaker. The breaker failed to trip after several tries.

 

[KyleDurham1221]

But what about all the other videos where people test them and they actually work?

 

[hbiss]

But what about all the other videos where people test them and they actually work?

Link?

-Hal

 

[ActionDave]

But what about all the other videos where people test them and they actually work?

Unless the standard has changed a Arc Fault won't trip on an arcing fault less than 70 amps and they provide no protection from glowing arcs.