NEC 2002 210-12 REQUIRES BRANCH CIRCUITS 15 & 20 AMPS OUTLETS TO BE ARCH FAULT PROTECTED. IN THE PAST I HAVE PROTECTED JUST THE OUTLETS AND NOT THE LIGHTING OUTLETS (PULLED A SEPERATE CIRCUIT FOR JUST THE LIGHTS). THIS HAS BEEN FINE WITH ALL INSPECTORS THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO. I NOW HAVE A NEW INSPECTOR THAT INSISTS THAT THE LIGHTING OUTLETS BE PROTECTED AS WELL. ANY HELP ON HOW I CAN SET HIM STRAIGHT WOULD HELP.
ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
- Thread starter AVD001
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Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Please turn off your caps.
If you under the 99 NEC, only receptacle outlets are required to be AFCI protected, if you are under 02 or 05 all outlets are required to be protected including lights and smoke detectors.
Roger
[ December 05, 2005, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
Please turn off your caps.
If you under the 99 NEC, only receptacle outlets are required to be AFCI protected, if you are under 02 or 05 all outlets are required to be protected including lights and smoke detectors.
Roger
[ December 05, 2005, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
See the definition of "outlet" in Article 100.
See the definition of "outlet" in Article 100.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Since you appear to be under the 2002 version, you can't set him straight. He is right. Look at the way 210.12 is worded: If a branch circuit supplies a 120 volt outlet in a dwelling unit bedroom, the entire branch circuit requires AFCI protection. The term "outlet" includes the lighting outlets and the smoke detector outlets, as well as the receptacle outlets.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Does anyone else think that it looks better?
Didn?t correct the spelling but I did want to see what it would look like with out his shouting. I think that it looks a lot better.
Does anyone else think that it looks better?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
You're too late, Mike. Roger has already mentioned the ALL CAPS thing.
You're too late, Mike. Roger has already mentioned the ALL CAPS thing.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
While we're nitpicking, "Arch" fault ?
While we're nitpicking, "Arch" fault ?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Yes arch fault,should it not hold the drywall you need fault protection.Also it is required to have arc fault protection.
Yes arch fault,should it not hold the drywall you need fault protection.Also it is required to have arc fault protection.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Scott
68%???
I thought for sure it was 72%. Article 10023 says that any guy from Mass has a 6 % overage... maybe you missed that.
Scott
68%???
I thought for sure it was 72%. Article 10023 says that any guy from Mass has a 6 % overage... maybe you missed that.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Arc , Arch , Arch however you spell it is way to expensive / circuit .Since 99 cycle we have had 3 or 4 homes go to final with no rough inspection ever signed off.Who`s is at fault on that is its own debate but to get passed on 3 we were required to arc fault all 125 volt circuits.On the 4th we were required to have the entire house 3798 sq.Ft. 2 story megged by an engineering firm and arc fault all 125 volt circuits.
The costs were passed to the builder as extras but companies tend to get irate when they get billed in the $1000`s for someones stupidity.
Arc , Arch , Arch however you spell it is way to expensive / circuit
.Since 99 cycle we have had 3 or 4 homes go to final with no rough inspection ever signed off.Who`s is at fault on that is its own debate but to get passed on 3 we were required to arc fault all 125 volt circuits.On the 4th we were required to have the entire house 3798 sq.Ft. 2 story megged by an engineering firm and arc fault all 125 volt circuits.The costs were passed to the builder as extras but companies tend to get irate when they get billed in the $1000`s for someones stupidity.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
It's there own fault if the do more work before checking the permit for needed inspections.Once is called a mistake,twice is called pay for it out of your paycheck,3 rd is called your fired
It's there own fault if the do more work before checking the permit for needed inspections.Once is called a mistake,twice is called pay for it out of your paycheck,3 rd is called your fired
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Just what code requires this?
FWIW IMO your company is ultimately responsible to ensure the inspections get done.
Don't take this badly, I have messed this up, more than a year passed on a job I did before we got word the final was never done.
You work in a very strange place.
Just what code requires this?
FWIW IMO your company is ultimately responsible to ensure the inspections get done.
Don't take this badly, I have messed this up, more than a year passed on a job I did before we got word the final was never done.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Bob ,had they refused the ahj could say remove the drywall.And no it's only our responsability to call for the inspection.Other trades failed by not checking that it passed.Life is differant in the south
Bob ,had they refused the ahj could say remove the drywall.And no it's only our responsability to call for the inspection.Other trades failed by not checking that it passed.Life is differant in the south
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Nice job trying to pass the buck. :roll:
Jim life ain't that different.
Nice job trying to pass the buck. :roll:
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Not passing the buck.Either you play by the rules or you don't play.Our permits are in the inspection box.One learns to check it before he works.Very costly lesson.But if it makes you feel better we can not miss the final.Simply no co or power.
Not passing the buck.Either you play by the rules or you don't play.Our permits are in the inspection box.One learns to check it before he works.Very costly lesson.But if it makes you feel better we can not miss the final.Simply no co or power.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
You are hired to do the electric work in a building, part of that is getting the inspections completed, not just asking for inspections.
If you mail a bill that really does get lost in the mail are you now not responsible for paying the bill because you dropped it in the mail?
In my case it was my fault for not following through.
Your passing the buck.
You are hired to do the electric work in a building, part of that is getting the inspections completed, not just asking for inspections.
If you mail a bill that really does get lost in the mail are you now not responsible for paying the bill because you dropped it in the mail?
In my case it was my fault for not following through.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Bob what it comes down to is basically in tract homes the builderspull the permits and enter the elec.or HVAC,Plmbing contractors # as under the permit.
We are scheduled to rough the home on an arbitrary date,we get there A/C not completed no exhaust fans installed a stub left for them no copper run we know where the print shows it but 50% of the time it gets moved.So call us when HVAC is done and we will return to finish.OK no problem in that,Someone at GC`s company doesn`t call and say hey guys come back and finish.They get an HVAC rough a frame is done but shouldn`t because the trades are all not sigbed off.(inspectors fault) we were never caled to return (GC`S fault)To us the house is a file with 3,000 others for that year.We aren`t building the house just wireing it should we be resposible to make sure that a builder has not drywalled right over us )
Bob what it comes down to is basically in tract homes the builderspull the permits and enter the elec.or HVAC,Plmbing contractors # as under the permit.
We are scheduled to rough the home on an arbitrary date,we get there A/C not completed no exhaust fans installed a stub left for them no copper run we know where the print shows it but 50% of the time it gets moved.So call us when HVAC is done and we will return to finish.OK no problem in that,Someone at GC`s company doesn`t call and say hey guys come back and finish.They get an HVAC rough a frame is done but shouldn`t because the trades are all not sigbed off.(inspectors fault) we were never caled to return (GC`S fault)To us the house is a file with 3,000 others for that year.We aren`t building the house just wireing it should we be resposible to make sure that a builder has not drywalled right over us
)
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
The other day I showed up on the job no siding no tinning no plumbers they were done for the most part but then I had to work shoulder to shoulder with the framer he happened to not speak much english so I was forced to go with the flow and I asked him cuando completas las paredes and he kinda shrugged and I told him tienes que completar las botaquines tambien and he nodded and indicated that he would take care of it but once I got into the basement and saw the mess down there I wanted to get out until the house was truly ready but since I take orders I did what I was told and started pulling rope and then I noticed the sumps lid had a wall sitting on it so I told the framer but he never really did anything about that one so anyway I ended up sticking my hand and my good sweatshirt in tinning pookie and working on top of pipe and tinning and lumber and siding and I got stuck sweeping the house and finishing up by myself on a Sunday during the game because its too cold in the morning to work and I come home just to see the donkeys lose in the fourth quarter which was unfortunate because it was a close hard fought game and now my schedules full for three weeks out
Speaking of outlets and arch faults...
The other day I showed up on the job no siding no tinning no plumbers they were done for the most part but then I had to work shoulder to shoulder with the framer he happened to not speak much english so I was forced to go with the flow and I asked him cuando completas las paredes and he kinda shrugged and I told him tienes que completar las botaquines tambien and he nodded and indicated that he would take care of it but once I got into the basement and saw the mess down there I wanted to get out until the house was truly ready but since I take orders I did what I was told and started pulling rope and then I noticed the sumps lid had a wall sitting on it
so I told the framer but he never really did anything about that one so anyway I ended up sticking my hand and my good sweatshirt in tinning pookie and working on top of pipe and tinning and lumber and siding and I got stuck sweeping the house and finishing up by myself on a Sunday during the game because its too cold in the morning to work and I come home just to see the donkeys lose in the fourth quarter which was unfortunate because it was a close hard fought game and now my schedules full for three weeks outSpeaking of outlets and arch faults...
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Only thing i can see that Allen's men are guilty of is not checking the permit before triming.But then i can't say i ever checked for that either.Down here we usually have a super to keep the jobs going smooth.It is his job to schedule and call trades in when things are ready.If your electrician tells the super he is not finished because the xxx is not ready then its the supers fault for dropping the ball.It's a mistake and we all make some.
Only thing i can see that Allen's men are guilty of is not checking the permit before triming.But then i can't say i ever checked for that either.Down here we usually have a super to keep the jobs going smooth.It is his job to schedule and call trades in when things are ready.If your electrician tells the super he is not finished because the xxx is not ready then its the supers fault for dropping the ball.It's a mistake and we all make some.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: ARCH FAULT BED ROOM
Jim I have been slapped on the wrist for this but here goes
Jim I have been slapped on the wrist for this but here goes
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