Are GE Single Pole Breakers Still Allowed to be Doubled for a 240v Circuit?

[T-Stripes]

Once upon a time, I found information to indicate/support the fact that GE AFCIs (or was it GFCIs?) could be handle-tied for a 240V circuit. It was the only manufacture that had this allowance. Is this true/still true??

 

[takelly]

GE single pole AFCI Breakers do not have any type of GFCI in them.

240.15(B)(1) Two GE AFCI single pole Breakers with tie handles will work and are code compliant with multiwire circuits.

240.15(B) does not allow them for 240 volt loads.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Once upon a time, I found information to indicate/support the fact that GE AFCIs (or was it GFCIs?) could be handle-tied for a 240V circuit. It was the only manufacture that had this allowance. Is this true/still true??

Yes, you can still do that with GE and I believe now you can do that with one of the Eaton lines, I think BR but not sure, and with Siemens.

 

[T-Stripes]

GE single pole AFCI Breakers do not have any type of GFCI in them.

240.15(B)(1) Two GE AFCI single pole Breakers with tie handles will work and are code compliant with multiwire circuits.

240.15(B) does not allow them for 240 volt loads.

Thank you, it is a multi-wire circuit. Do you know, does this allowance also apply to AFCI?

 

[wwhitney]

240.15(B) does not allow them for 240 volt loads.

240.15(B)(2) does allow them for a 240V 2-wire loads.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[T-Stripes]

240.15(B)(2) does allow them for a 240V 2-wire loads.

Cheers, Wayne

Hi Wayne, Thanks for your post reply. So the 240v 2-wire can work with the handle-tied, doubled GE breakers, even though there is no neutral return? Does that make sense? I figured you needed the neutral for the return voltage sensing? The doubled GE breaker arrangement is a puzzling one to me.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Hi Wayne, Thanks for your post reply. So the 240v 2-wire can work with the handle-tied, doubled GE breakers, even though there is no neutral return? Does that make sense? I figured you needed the neutral for the return voltage sensing? The doubled GE breaker arrangement is a puzzling one to me.

The GE AFCI does not have any ground fault protection, so no need to monitor the neutral.

 

[T-Stripes]

@don_resqcapt19
@wwhitney
@takelly
The code reference, specifically the diagram in 240.15, Exhibit 240.5, top image, seems to specify ONLY "multipole common trip" for a 2-wire/240v circuit supplying my load, in this case, two heaters on a 20A circuit.
This appears to negate the two AFCIs with a handle tie.
Considering that GE has discontinued the common trip 2-pole AFCI, circumstances appear to lead back to a non-AFCI protected circuit (mainly exterior conduit with two Bell box J-boxes to tap the circuit into the heaters at two points inside the house).
Also, in 240.15, the references are to common breakers. I was hoping to see a reference to AFCI protection of this type of circuit, specifically.
I have a call into the AHJ to get a perspective from the top, though your feedback(s) have been helpful in further illuminating the challenges I deal with in Washington.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

@don_resqcapt19
@wwhitney
@takelly
The code reference, specifically the diagram in 240.15, Exhibit 240.5, top image, seems to specify ONLY "multipole common trip" for a 2-wire/240v circuit supplying my load, in this case, two heaters on a 20A circuit.
This appears to negate the two AFCIs with a handle tie.
Considering that GE has discontinued the common trip 2-pole AFCI, circumstances appear to lead back to a non-AFCI protected circuit (mainly exterior conduit with two Bell box J-boxes to tap the circuit into the heaters at two points inside the house).
Also, in 240.15, the references are to common breakers. I was hoping to see a reference to AFCI protection of this type of circuit, specifically.
I have a call into the AHJ to get a perspective from the top, though your feedback(s) have been helpful in further illuminating the challenges I deal with in Washington.

Don't understand why you would be talking about an AFCI for that type of circuit? The AFCI requirement has never applied to anything other than a 120 volt circuit. The old GE two pole AFCIs were to accommodate multi-wire circuits,

 

[T-Stripes]

Don't understand why you would be talking about an AFCI for that type of circuit? The AFCI requirement has never applied to anything other than a 120 volt circuit. The old GE two pole AFCIs were to accommodate multi-wire circuits,

Unfortunately, Washington State is enforcing the full AFCI requirement as of the 2020 NEC, 120 & 240, with the exception of major appliances (manufactures are yet to adapt their equipment to function with Arc faults). 2017 code had only the 120v requirement, beyond the bedroom circuits.

 

[wwhitney]

The code reference, specifically the diagram in 240.15, Exhibit 240.5, top image, seems to specify ONLY "multipole common trip" for a 2-wire/240v circuit

I don't see an Exhibit 240.5 in the NEC; if you are referring to the Handbook, you'll have to post the exhibit if you want to reference it. But the Handbook does not have the force of the adopted code, it is commentary.

The text in NEC 240.15(B) is very clear. The first paragraph tells you that your circuit breaker has to open all ungrounded conductors both "manually and automatically" (i.e. be common trip), UNLESS otherwise permitted in the subsections. Then 240.15(B)(2) exactly describes your installation, and it says that two single pole breakers with a handle tie are allowed instead. Seems cut and dried.

Between 240.15(B)(1) and (2), on a 120/240V system, the only time you need common trip is if a 3-wire branch circuit supplies both 120V and 240V loads (or 120/240V load(s)).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Unfortunately, Washington State is enforcing the full AFCI requirement as of the 2020 NEC, 120 & 240, with the exception of major appliances (manufactures are yet to adapt their equipment to function with Arc faults). 2017 code had only the 120v requirement, beyond the bedroom circuits.

Are you sure that you are not talking about GFCI?

UL 1699, the product standard for AFCIs does not even cover a 240 volt AFCI. The NEC does not have any requirement for AFCI protection of a 240 volt circuit.

Can you post the Washington amendment requiring AFCI protection for 240 volt circuits?

 

[T-Stripes]

Are you sure that you are not talking about GFCI?

UL 1699, the product standard for AFCIs does not even cover a 240 volt AFCI. The NEC does not have any requirement for AFCI protection of a 240 volt circuit.

Can you post the Washington amendment requiring AFCI protection for 240 volt circuits?

@wwhitney
Ding!! I had been given wrong directive by a past inspector (he has since passed) who required me to add AFCI protection to a 240V floor heat circuit (it had GFI protection at the stat), or I had misunderstood what he had said (but I don't think so in that case, I remember my surprise and annoyance). I had been following this proscription since. Very glad this came up and I've gotten correction on this issue. I have scoured the Newsletter archives and the NEC for all references to AFCI protection and can find no rule change to require AFCI protection for a 240V circuit. Those damn breakers are too expensive.
Thanks to you both for your advice on these two separate GE installations.

 

[letgomywago]

@wwhitney
Ding!! I had been given wrong directive by a past inspector (he has since passed) who required me to add AFCI protection to a 240V floor heat circuit (it had GFI protection at the stat), or I had misunderstood what he had said (but I don't think so in that case, I remember my surprise and annoyance). I had been following this proscription since. Very glad this came up and I've gotten correction on this issue. I have scoured the Newsletter archives and the NEC for all references to AFCI protection and can find no rule change to require AFCI protection for a 240V circuit. Those damn breakers are too expensive.
Thanks to you both for your advice on these two separate GE installations.

If the heat was in a bathroom you never needed afci either. No bathroom circuits need it I've had to educate lni inspectors of this also.

 

[kwired]

Is there such thing as two pole AFCI breakers? NEC hasn't had any AFCI requirements involving other than 15/20 amp 120 volt circuits.

I guess for MWBC's it would have to be for any that incorporate any GFP component.

 

[Fred B]

Is there such thing as two pole AFCI breakers?

Yes. All major mfg list one.

NEC hasn't had any AFCI requirements involving other than 15/20 amp 120 volt circuits.

Correct

I guess for MWBC's it would have to be for any that incorporate any GFP component.

Yes, statement on product listing from Siemens:
"The Siemens 20-Amp 2-Pole Combination AFCI Circuit Breaker reduces wiring costs and installation time by enabling contractors to use multi-wire branch circuits, commonly known as "shared neutrals". When using single pole CAFCIs, a dedicated neutral is required for each circuit. This breaker allows electricians to share neutrals between the two circuits fed by the breaker. CAFCI Breakers are designed to protect against line-to-ground arcs, line-to-neutral arcs and series arcs to help protect your home from an electrical fire. The breaker is intended to mitigate the effects of arcing faults by de-energizing the circuit when an arc-fault is detected."