Are the Combination AFCI's Enough?

[Joe Cool]

Have my new 200 amp panel in now. Looks great.

I want to put the AFCI's in for all the habitable rooms.

Are the QO Combination AFCI's enough to meet code?

Or do I need something else?

I don't want to install these if they are not up to date.

Thank for your time.

 

[ptonsparky]

Have my new 200 amp panel in now. Looks great.

I want to put the AFCI's in for all the habitable rooms.

Are the QO Combination AFCI's enough to meet code?

Or do I need something else?

I don't want to install these if they are not up to date.

Thank for your time.

Combination AFCI/GFCI? I would think so. We use CH, but we will be using their combos wherever we can or need to.

 

[MasterTheNEC]

@ Joe Cool - the installation of AFCI's in all habitable rooms is obviously a choice you have to make. However, the NEC also requires them on circuit that supply spaces that are not considered habitable so in that thinking you would violate the NEC directive of being a minimum safety standard. Remove the arguments people have about "IF" they work....fact is code requires them...so with that said....here is where the are required in terms of the 2014 National Electrical Code.

(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed
in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining
rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms,
sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas,
or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of
the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6):

Then you have a number of ways to comply....in (A)(1) through (A)(6)

If the device says "combination AFCI" then you are compliant in terms of the device.....as long as it protects the circuits that supply the locations defined in the information above.

 

[GoldDigger]

Combination AFCI/GFCI? I would think so. We use CH, but we will be using their combos wherever we can or need to.

Joe,
Be careful about your terminology.
A combo AFCI has both series and parallel arc detection and may or may not have a GFCI function.
A dual function AFCI includes both combo AFCI and GFCI functions.

 

[ptonsparky]

Joe,
Be careful about your terminology.
A combo AFCI has both series and parallel arc detection and may or may not have a GFCI function.
A dual function AFCI includes both combo AFCI and GFCI functions.

Are the non-combo (series and parallel) even available any more? I don't remember when the switch to combos were code mandated. At least two cycles ago?

 

[Joe Cool]

@ Joe Cool - the installation of AFCI's in all habitable rooms is obviously a choice you have to make. However, the NEC also requires them on circuit that supply spaces that are not considered habitable so in that thinking you would violate the NEC directive of being a minimum safety standard. Remove the arguments people have about "IF" they work....fact is code requires them...so with that said....here is where the are required in terms of the 2014 National Electrical Code.

(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed
in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining
rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms,
sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas,
or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of
the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6):

Then you have a number of ways to comply....in (A)(1) through (A)(6)

If the device says "combination AFCI" then you are compliant in terms of the device.....as long as it protects the circuits that supply the locations defined in the information above.

Thanks very much for all replies.

I think I may have a serious problem after reading 210.12.

I had to move my breaker panel, which is located in the basement, due to plumbing issues.

So I put a 4-11 / 2 1/8 deep junction box where each of the NM cables

or groups of NM cables entered the walls from the basement ceiling).

Then I ran EMT from each junction box to my new panel. Looks much cleaner now.

But have I painted myself into a corner?

It sounds like the runs have to be continuous to the first outlet.

Any suggestions??

 

[ptonsparky]

Were any of the existing MWBCs? They will cause you grief, that and past electricians habit of tying all the whites together in every j-box.

The last service change we did, my guys used the AFCI or combo AFCI/GFCI where they would be required now. They let the CBs indicate if they had a problem with the circuit. Two faulted so they chased down the problems on those circuits and informed the owner what to watch for incase others tripped later. I haven't decided if that was being lazy or smart.

 

[Joe Cool]

How about if I use Combination AFCI/GFCI breakers

and add a Combination AFCI/GFCI Receptacle at the first outlet of each circuit?

Wouldn't that still protect the whole branch circuit??

 

[ActionDave]

You just need to use AFCI breakers. The latest generation are "combination" and protect against series and parallel arcs. The "dual function" breakers are handy for new requirements for things like dishwashers that need AFCI and GFCI and have the GFCI readily accessible.

Don't worry about the conduit to the first outlet thing. That is if you want to use one the new AFCI plugs instead of a breaker.

 

[Joe Cool]

Were any of the existing MWBCs? They will cause you grief, that and past electricians habit of tying all the whites together in every j-box.

The last service change we did, my guys used the AFCI or combo AFCI/GFCI where they would be required now. They let the CBs indicate if they had a problem with the circuit. Two faulted so they chased down the problems on those circuits and informed the owner what to watch for incase others tripped later. I haven't decided if that was being lazy or smart.

Thanks much for reply.

There was only one MWBC. A 12/3 with Ground.

It was run to the second floor bathroom to feed the GFCI

near the sink and the GFCI for the bathtub motor.

All the rest of the NM runs were single wire.

I used wire markers on all of my wires, including all the neutrals.

All of my neutrals are separate and taped together with their

corresponding CCC, at each junction.

 

[Joe Cool]

You just need to use AFCI breakers. The latest generation are "combination" and protect against series and parallel arcs. The "dual function" breakers are handy for new requirements for things like dishwashers that need AFCI and GFCI and have the GFCI readily accessible.

Don't worry about the conduit to the first outlet thing. That is if you want to use one the new AFCI plugs instead of a breaker.

Cool! Thanks for reply!

I'm should really start a separate thread for this question.

Thanks much.