Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

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Polo32417

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I'm designing the electrical layout of a kitchen. Inside of the kitchen
there is a Island counter with a sink and a dishwasher. Per article
210.52(C)(2) only one receptacle is required at each island counter space
with a long dimension of 24in. or greater and a short dimension of 12in. Do
I need any other receptacles on the island? For example do I need any
receptacles to meet the general provisions of 210.52(A)?

[ December 22, 2005, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Polo32417 ]
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

One receptacle is fine unless the island is divided into two spaces as defined in 210.52(C)(2).

210.52(A)is, as you said, a general provision, and 210.52(C)(2) is a specific requirement which overrules a general provision.

Chris
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

I've never ran into a problem with 210.52(A)(2) receptacles on an island but reading the section again, why wouldn't those receptacles be required?

It looks like they are to me.

210.52(A)(2)(1): Any space 600 mm (2ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) ..........

It's "any space".
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

210.52(A)(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

If the island is considered a room divider watch:

210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets
(2) Wall Space As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

Originally posted by physis:. . . why wouldn't those receptacles be required? . . . It's "any space".
Click to expand...
First it has to be a wall. Only walls have "wall space." If we see a wall, then we look to see if the wall is wide enough to require a receptacle.
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

Originally posted by physis:
I've never ran into a problem with 210.52(A)(2) receptacles on an island but reading the section again, why wouldn't those receptacles be required?

It looks like they are to me.

210.52(A)(2)(1): Any space 600 mm (2ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) ..........

It's "any space".
Click to expand...
You left out the 2 most important words, wall space .
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

And I don't have the book with me right now. :(

From memory though:

Doesn't that section define "wall space"? What a wall is is ndependant of what's a wall as I recall?

I remember a good arguement over this in the past.
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

You don't need your book. Just look at the quote from jwelectric's post of 2:47 pm. The title of paragraph 210.52(A)(2) is "wall space." If the thing you are looking at is not a wall, you have no business reading that paragraph.

By the way, I remember that argument (I'd rather say "discussion") too. I also remember that I won it. :D
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

I would say to the "OP" that if the two spaces that the sink has now made is each of the dimension required in 210.52(C)(2) (12"x24") each space would require one receptacle. I would use 210.52(C)(4) for the requirment

210.52(C)(4) Separate Spaces. Countertop spaces separated by range tops, refrigerators, or sinks shall be considered as separate countertop spaces in applying the requirements of 210.52(C)(1), (2), and (3).
Click to expand...
It includes 210.52(C)(2)
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

so im still not clear on this issue. if you have an island is a receptacle required on the back of it like it was a wall?
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

An island will generally need only one or two. The difference between one versus two hinges on whether there's a sink or stovetop in the middle and 24 inches of space on either side. The slightly strange twist is that if there is more than 12 inches of counter space behind the sink or stovetop, it is presumed that a cord can safely be run from a receptacle on one side to an appliance on the other side. So you only need one receptacle in that case.
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

Originally posted by new_ee: if you have an island is a receptacle required on the back of it like it was a wall?
Click to expand...
No. An island is not a wall. 210.52(C)(2) applies; 210.52(A) does not apply.
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

Charlie, I think you won that disscussion too, but I'm having some difficulty with it again.

And the origanal poster can, I'm sure, ignore this debate in regard to the installation.

Charlie, how do you and Mike explain 210.52(A)(2)(3)?

That isn't a wall as far as I'm concerned. It certainly isn't a stud wall with sheet rock, joint compound and paint on it.

So in my opinion, "wall space" is at best, a ponderable. If that's true then it needs a definition. There isn't one in Article 100 or in 210.2.

So I feel like I'm forced to go to 210.52(A)(2) to learn what a wall space is.

210.52(A)(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
Click to expand...
(1) Any space 600 mm (2ft)or more in width...........
Click to expand...
You see what I'm saying, a banister isn't a wall either, but CMP 2 sees it as one. So our rational perception of "wall" fails here! It doesn't seem, to me, we're allowed to use reason, common sense or English to understand what a wall space is. And that's what you and Mike propose.

By new_ee:

so im still not clear on this issue. if you have an island is a receptacle required on the back of it like it was a wall?
Click to expand...
I think the question is valid. Most likely your inspector wont try to enforce it that way. But, at least I, beleive he could.

Why isn't the blank panelling on the back of the island a wall? And then, why isn't the front of it a wall? If sticks are a wall, then why not drawers? Or any space?

And Hi Wayne. :cool:

Edit: I just reread Mike's post. I think he's agreeing that it's wall space.

[ December 23, 2005, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

Gentlemen: Terms in the code that are not defined in Article 100, you use the IEEE dictionary for technical electrical terms, for terms used in building construction you defer to the building official who has the experience and expertise to define a "WALL".
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

You guys are killing me. Next you'll want receptacles in the back of a couch that divides two rooms. :roll:
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

I think that the code is very clear that the area in question is wall space. There is no need to look to outside definitions as the term in defined in 210.52(A).
(2) Wall Space As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings
Click to expand...
The island is an item that is "such as freestanding bar-type counters", and as such is wall space. This is again a case, where I don't think that the code says what it means, that is I don't think that the code intended to require receptacle outlets in that area, but the wording does.
Don
 
Re: Are wall space receptacles required for a kitchen Island

Originally posted by physis: Charlie, how do you and Mike explain 210.52(A)(2)(3)?
Click to expand...
Mike is on his own. But for my part, I don't see a need to explain it. When we are looking at the plans for the house, and we see a fixed room divider, then we must include the "space afforded by" that divider in our list of things that need receptacles. We pick the spacing of the receptacles per 210.52(A)(1).
Originally posted by physis: So I feel like I'm forced to go to 210.52(A)(2) to learn what a wall space is.
Click to expand...
Here I am certain that you are wrong. I have made this point in another thread, I believe, but it bears repeating. 210.52(A)(2) does not not NOT define a "wall." All it does is say that if you have a wall, and if it has wall space that fits the description in 210.52(A)(2), then that wall space must have receptacles. That is not a definition. In order to apply 210.52(A)(2), you must first have a "wall."
Originally posted by physis: Why isn't the blank paneling on the back of the island a wall?
Click to expand...
Because there is a 210.52(A) and there is a 210.52(C). The first is called "general provisions," and it deals with walls. The second is called "countertops," and it is in this grouping that the island appears. Please note that the islands need receptacles because of their countertops, not because of their vertical sides. Please note also that you are permitted to install the required receptacle on the vertical sides, under certain circumstances. But you are not required to do so.
 
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