Art 210.25

[Smash]

Is there any kind of a Grandfather clause with regards to separating utilities within a single family house where the owner has someone living upstairs another living down. Two kitchens, owner pays all utilities. The place was built in early 1900. I was just doing some service work there and a building inspector from the twp is siting art 210.25 and said everything must be separate even if tenants are not involved with paying utilities. It would cost $50K easy to seperate everything. In fact might be impossible with duct work etc. I find it really hard to believe if you have a tenant there living space must be seperate. Here in Philly I’d say maybe half are compliant to this article.

 

[petersonra]

210.25 Branch Circuits in Buildings with More Than One
Occupancy.
(A) Dwelling Unit Branch Circuits. Branch circuits in each
dwelling unit shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit
or loads associated only with that dwelling unit.

My guess is this was not in the code when the electrical system was installed in the house, so likely was compliant at the time, meaning in most cases it can stay IF (and this is a big if) it was a two tenant unit at the time. If someone converted it later, and at the time of conversion 210.25(A) existed, the inspector probably is right.

Why does he even care is the question? How did it even come to his attention?

 

[Smash]

I have no idea I pretty much said the same thing. He’s a building inspector employed by the twp real nice high end suburb. The owner even told him it’s practically impossible to do what he’s requesting. He said that’s not my problem it’s yours speaking to the owner. So was just wondering if anyone has run into this sort of thing before.

 

[Smash]

I have no idea I pretty much said the same thing. He’s a building inspector employed by the twp real nice high end suburb. The owner even told him it’s practically impossible to do what he’s requesting. He said that’s not my problem it’s yours speaking to the owner. So was just wondering if anyone has run into this sort of thing before.

I will dig deeper, thx

 

[Joe.B]

Overstepping for sure. I believe the intent of this section is to prevent a circuit fault/interrupt in one unit from affecting the other. It's not saying it has to be metered separately, just that circuits are supposed to be separate in new installations.

 

[Smash]

Well that’s what this inspector wants. He wants everything HVAC, plumbing, heaters, separated. It’s a old place and recently before this current owner it was used as a office two floors one office, my guess single family before that. Anyway the owners son lives on first floor with a blocked off inside stairway to 2nd floor. Then there’s a seperate exterior stairway to 2nd floor. Might be a fire escape for the previous offices.

 

[Joe.B]

Is it possible there was unpermitted work and/or unauthorized change of use? If there's active enforcement then all bets are off...

 

[Smash]

Yes I’m starting to believe that to be the case. The owner (a lawyer) appears to be a bit strange but also wants to be and thought he was being compliant. The previous office had old exit and emergency lights which I replaced. I asked him why if a residential home was the need. Twp told him if they are installed they need to work. I asked why not take them all out ? His response well in case it goes back to a office some day. It’s a real cluster f%## Now he has gotten complaints from tenant that there too bright at night. I’m not sure how this will end for the owner but doesn’t sound good. In my 40 plus out in the field I’ve never ran into this problem. Maybe never considered it when the utilities were not separated. I assumed if a tenant did not pay for utilities no problem. Art 210.25 says not so fast other factors in play. It’s also possible this owner ( and I’m starting to lean this way) rubbed the inspector the wrong way with his constant lawyer speak and now made a big mess for himself. Most twp inspectors are reasonable and will grandfather with in reason case by case. For this guy to insist everything must comply speaks volumes of the pain in the ass this owner is. Rubbed me the wrong way after I finished around $4K worth of work I was informed of a monthly payment plan. Now he wants to borrow my 2021 code book and look for a loop hole. That’s not happening btw. Told him to download the 2014 because that’s what this particular twp is using.

Thx for the responses. This site is my flag pole to run things up and down and has helped numerous times over the years for that I thank you all.