Art. 230 Services: Can (2) detached and side by side units have a common Elec meter?

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fandi

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Los Angeles
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Electrical Engineer
Hello All,
I went thru Art 230 but can't find the answer for this. Each unit will have its own submeter but not utility provided meters. Just some emon dmon submeters.
Thanks.
 
Nothing in the NEC prohibits it: meter requirements are not covered by the NEC. It's a question for the utility and/or the authority having jurisdiction.
 
Why are two meters a problem? Sounds like some landlord is trying to make some extra cash which I believe is illegal. I don't think you can base utility charges on those Emon-Dmon meters.

-Hal
 
You may have local or POCO rules to comply with, but NEC doesn't care if there is a meter at all. A meter socket is often just a "wide point" in the service conductors as far as NEC is concerned, service conductors come in, service conductors go out.

Sub meters, especially non utility meters, you could put one on every appliance if you wanted to track it's usage and is not an NEC issue. How you install it is still subject to NEC but there is nothing prohibiting having the meter.
 
tortuga said:
Its not in the NEC
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&sectionNum=1940.9

I think its prohibited for new construction since 1977 somewhere else in the CA code. I would request landlords attorney sign off on whatever you do.
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Thanks a lot for the code section as this property is in California.
I have a question though: This code section talks about 'gas or electric service provided through a tenant’s meter serves an area outside the tenant’s dwelling unit' so I'm not sure this code would apply to my question because each unit has each own sub-meter (even the way the sub-meter calculates would not be correct as POCO charge rates vary depending on the time of the day) and share the same upstream meter at the main distribution panel. There's no 'outside the tenant dwelling unit' in this case.
 
fandi said:
Thanks a lot for the code section as this property is in California.
I have a question though: This code section talks about 'gas or electric service provided through a tenant’s meter serves an area outside the tenant’s dwelling unit' so I'm not sure this code would apply to my question because each unit has each own sub-meter (even the way the sub-meter calculates would not be correct as POCO charge rates vary depending on the time of the day) and share the same upstream meter at the main distribution panel. There's no 'outside the tenant dwelling unit' in this case.
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As long as no one tries to put a tenant's name on the utility's meter, then you'd be right. Btw, I believe it's illegal in California to charge a submetered tenant differently than the utility would. Can't provide a citation, but I read that somewhere.

Put it this way: None of this affects what an electrical inspector would approve, (unless s/he is tasked with enforcing some non-electrical code law.) More at issue is making sure a tenant can't sue a landlord.
 
jaggedben said:
As long as no one tries to put a tenant's name on the utility's meter, then you'd be right. Btw, I believe it's illegal in California to charge a submetered tenant differently than the utility would. Can't provide a citation, but I read that somewhere.

Put it this way: None of this affects what an electrical inspector would approve, (unless s/he is tasked with enforcing some non-electrical code law.) More at issue is making sure a tenant can't sue a landlord.
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Regarding landlord charging the tenant different rate than the utility, I think neither landlord nor tenant could sue each other if they have a mutual written agreement from day 1 detailing something like this: x amount of dollars per month (lump sum) and y amount of dollars a month for July, August, September (summer months).
 
fandi said:
Regarding landlord charging the tenant different rate than the utility, I think neither landlord nor tenant could sue each other if they have a mutual written agreement from day 1 detailing something like this: x amount of dollars per month (lump sum) and y amount of dollars a month for July, August, September (summer months).
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It's a basic tenet of law that someone can't sign away rights given to them by law. So no matter what the tenant agrees to, it would still be illegal if the landlord charges more than the POCO.That would be hard not to do since the sub-meters don't work the same as POCO meters and the rates that would be charged for the lesser amounts wouldn't be the same as from the POCO .

This whole sub-metering thing sounds very fishy. I've asked before, what is the problem with individual POCO meters?

-Hal
 
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Laws are different in many places.

There are times when owner pays utility bills - in particular water, gas, electric, phones and other communications tend to be tenant's baby in more recent years though even if other utilities are paid.

Nothing wrong AFAIK in monitoring usage of a particular feeder or circuit - including water or gas. Charging directly based on use is usually not legal, even if you are not marking it up. Adjusting rent or lease amount based on average of utilities is probably legal. Might want to only adjust amount on an annual basis and not every month - that starts to be more like basing fees on actual use and may raise more questions.
 
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