Art. 680.26

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hey_poolboy

hey_poolboy

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Illinois
What's the deal with 680.26 ,C, 3? This new requirement for the bonding grid is unreal!
I have been a poolbuilder in the past. We installed fiberglass pools, and this bonding grid of copper is going to be a nightmare.

I realize that the pool builder on concrete pools has to bond his structural steel, and most of the builders up here do all of the bonding and get the inspection so that they can pour decking. If the pool is a descent size it could take a couple guys all day to lay out and tie this grid together. Not to mention the $$ in copper.

Is there any GOOD reason this was added? :confused:
 
Re: Art. 680.26

being somewhat of a cynic my first thought is that the manufacturers of copper wire got it added.

my second thought is that perhaps there is some issue of pools having some kind of voltage gradient around them that might create unpleasantness and this is an attempt to alleviate it.
 
Re: Art. 680.26

I realize that there is a voltage gradient. In the past all that was required is that ALL metalic objects be bonded. (i.e. handrail, ladder, reinforcement in slab, pump, heater, controls, automatic covers, etc.

My boss and I were talking and thought that maybe the grid under the pool was added for dryer climates. If the moisture content was so low in the soil, that they needed the extra surface area of copper exposed to eliminate the voltage gradient. If that is the case, could they not make a provision to use a concrete encased ground rod, or a conventionally driven rod. Even if it has to be two or a 20'er it would be better than the current setup.

Stupid copper manufacturers
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Re: Art. 680.26

hey-poolboy ,
Don't really see a change in 680.26 c3 , seems to be saying that 'all metal objects be bonded to a common bonding grid' while showing what is permitted !
 
Re: Art. 680.26

In 2002 section C 3 read as follows.
"a solid copper conductor, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG."

2005 reads as follows.
" Alternate means. This system shall be permitted to be constructed specified in (a) through (c):
a. materials and connections. The grid shall be constructed of min. 8awg bare solid copper conductors. Conductors shall be bonded to each other at all points of crossing.
b. Grid structure. yada, yada. :roll:
must be 12" x 12" with a tolerance of 4"
c. Securing grid shall be secured within or under the pool and deck.


In 02 there is no express designation of a grid. The new code actually states a grid and the dimensions.
Think of this. A small 12'x20' pool would require aprox. 800 feet to construct this grid under the surface of the pool
Sub headings 1&2 account for concrete pools and liner pools, but a fiberglass pool has neither of these networks to bond to. Therefore, the only option left is #3.
 
Re: Art. 680.26

I hope this helps. 680.26 Bonding


(B) Bonding Together


(1) Metallic Parts of Pool Structure. You must bond all metallic parts of the water structure, including the reinforcing metal of the pool shell, coping stones, and deck to a common bonding grid [680.26(C)]. Steel tie-wires are suitable for bonding together reinforcing steel. Where the reinforcing steel is encapsulated with a nonconductive compound, you must make provisions for an alternate means to eliminate voltage gradients, which would otherwise be provided by unencapsulated, bonded reinforcing steel.

Intent: The revised text requires you to bond all reinforcing steel of the water structure to a common bonding grid, and any reinforcing steel that is encapsulated with a nonconductive compound must be provided with an alternate means to eliminate voltage gradients.

There is no acceptable method for bonding nonconductive-coated steel, so a task group has been assembled to investigate this issue and provide data to the industry on how this could be accomplished. Now, you can only use steel without a nonconductive coating for swimming pools, outdoor spas, and hot tubs because there is no way to use structural steel with nonconductive, anti-corrosion coating to eliminate voltage gradients.
 
Re: Art. 680.26

So, correct me if I'm wrong here, (and it wouldn't be the first time :D ) but by '05 code if I installed a fiberglass pool, since there is no stuctural steel There would have to be a copper grid created under the entire pool.

That's the way I understand it currently.

Mike
 
Re: Art. 680.26

Peter D,
actually, yes. At least in the past I got that a lot. I worked as an installer and a service manager for a pool and spa place for over 10 years, and it just stuck.

Edited twice because I have apparently forgotten how to instert my own smilies. Duh :D

[ January 23, 2005, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: hey_poolboy ]
 
Re: Art. 680.26

I'd like to see this string continue.

This is a problem if you install fiberglass pools. or pools where the re- bar is coated. I asked the same question on another forum a month a go and no-one jumped in.

If there is not re-enforcing steel etc. present 680.26 (C) 3 Alternate Means. just might require an on site constructed grid not smaller than 8 solid wire placed under the pool and confoming to the shape of the pool. The wire may have to cross in 12" squares and be bonded at each intersection!!!! Also the grid would need to extend 3' horizontally from the inside wall.

I think the intent of the proposal was to address the bonding of pools with encapsulated re bar, but the change in 680.26 (C) applies to any pool.
 
Re: Art. 680.26

my q would be....

why introduce something conductable when there is nothing conductable to bond in the first place?
 
Re: Art. 680.26

romex jockey,

I agree. Regardless of new changes the handrails, ladders and deck re-inforcement have to be bonded. Also an automatic cover if present. Currently our local inspector trusts us enough that if the concrete contractor has to pour and he can't get there he will allow us to take a picture for him of the copper and the points at which it is bonded to each item. Pretty cool!

Next they'll want us to drill a hole in the side of the pool and pond to the water :D
 
Re: Art. 680.26

I'm sorry for the length but I had to do this


[Next they'll want us to drill a hole in the side of the pool and pond to the water ]

2004 ROP Page 1581 Prposal # 17-120 Log 304 NEC - P-17
(6) Pool Water. The pool water shall be effectively bonded. Pool shells made of reinforced concrete in which the water is in direct
contact with the concrete and the reinforcing steel is utilized as the common bonding grid shall be considered to effectively bond the
water. If non-conducting or non-reinforced material is used to form the pool shell or liner, bonding shall be accomplished via the use of
metallic parts, plumbing, lighting brackets and shells, ladders, electrodes, etc., in continuous contact with the water. The metal shall be
copper, brass, bronze, or other corrosion resistant material or may be chrome plated. Metallic parts used for bonding shall have a
minimum surface area in contact with the water of 200 square centimeters. Semi-conducting material may be used if the resistivity of
such material is less than 0.1 ohm-centimeters. Semi-conducting material shall have a minimum of 0.5 square meters in contact with the
pool water at each location and encapsulate copper conductor evenly distributed throughout. The encapsulated copper conductor shall
have a total electrical area of at least 16,500 circular mils and have terminations of at least 8 AWG. Point of bonding with the pool water
shall be made at no more than 4 meters distance around the circumference of the pool.
Substantiation:


I believe this had an impact on the existing language. It could have been ugly!

Chalie
 
Re: Art. 680.26

hey, Cpal, where do you find that stuff?

I am curious about a couple of potential situations though. Installations similar to those I used to perform consisted of mostly high end pools. We seldom installed ladders, used only fiber optic lighting, and installed auto covers. If the thought was that this water bonding should happen w/i 4 meters what would happen in the following scenario.

Fiberglass pool, handrail, concrete deck, ladder that is hinged to allow operation of automatic cover, fiber optic lighting (no metal niche) if the filtering equipment is located remotely (as in most high end jobs) where do we bond?
1. Equipment is located too far away to install
metal plumbing
2. No metal in continuous contact with water
3. Metal piping underground would only corrode
4. The heater could be bonded, but would only
serve its purpose when water was moving
through it.
 
Re: Art. 680.26

Section 680.26 (B) lists the following
(1) Metallic Structural Componets
(2) Underground lighting
(3) Metal Fittings
(4) Electrical Equipment
(5) Metal Wiring Methods and Equipment

If the installed pool has any of these items (as listed) they shall be bonded together.

The last post was a cut and paste from the proposals submitted for 2005 NEC changes.

The language that filtered into the Code, was part of the process of debate.

I still think there is an argument to construct an extensive grid from #8 Cu if the structure does not provide its own grid structure this one will be worked out and I hope addressed in 08.

Charlie
 
Re: Art. 680.26

Hi, to all. I posted a "no steel no grid" comment,and after further review I would like to change the call. It would seem "cpal" is right, it says were "not available",meaning no steel,an alternate means shall be provided. Where the reinforcing steel of the permanently installed pool, outdoor spa, and outdoor hot tub shell and deck are encapsulated with a nonconductive compound or if it's not available, an equipotential grid constructed in accordance with 680.26(C) must be installed to mask stray voltage gradients.
Now to make things a little more interesting, look up the definition of a permanently installed pool........."Those that are constructed in the ground or partially in the ground, and all others capable of holding water in a depth greater than 42",and all pools installed inside of a building, regardless of water depth,whether or not served by electrical circuits of any nature"...........I wire many "above ground" pools that meet this definition by virtue of the water depth and am having a hard time meeting current bonding requirements impart because plastic and metal are being used and it is disrupting the electrical continuity between metallic parts.Now I have to construct a grid under the lining? It would seem the only pools not required to have a "grid" are those of molded polymeric walls or of inflatable walls installed on the ground.
 
Re: Art. 680.26

Don't feel alone in attempting to interpret this one it's a little confusing and no one I've talked to really likes what they think it might be saying. I've talked to a lot of people.
 
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