Asbestos in ceiling texture

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tx2step

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North Texas, DFW area
I recently read an article in the newspaper saying that sprayed-on ceiling texture (especially popcorn type with glitter) that was put on in the 80's or earlier probably had asbestos in it.

Do any of you have any experience with this, and what precautions do you take if you have to cut holes in these types of ceilings?

Other than the obvious spray-on fireproofing for steel and various types of pipe insulation in commercial and industrial settings, where else have you run into asbestos?

I know that some of the old vinyl floor tiles and floor adhesives had asbestos in them, but we don't usually have to worry about that.

Where do you run into asbestos in homes?

What do you do to protect yourself?
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

All I know (or I think I know :) )is that asbestos is most harmful when it is friable and loose in the air for someone to breath in. Once inside it can attach itself to the walls of the lungs and cut away at it like little razor blades. Symptoms of asbestos exposure can take many years to show. I also read maybe the same article in the Kansas City Star a couple weeks ago. It scares me that this stuff is not taken more seriously. I would be very careful when cutting into popcorn ceilings or breaking up a tile floor that you suspect contains asbestos. I have never personnaly done this type of work (desk jockey), so I cannot advise you how to proceed. Just be careful. :(
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

I'm not an asbestos abatement expert by any means, but about 15 years ago did a school remodel and addition. They had to do asbestos abatement first. After that was doen we found some small sections of floor tile still in place. They brought the abatement team back in with full suits, tented the area and treated the remaining floor tile pretty seriously. :(
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

They brought the abatement team back in with full suits, tented the area and treated the remaining floor tile pretty seriously.

I'm not going to suggest that asbestos isn't a problem but these abatement guys get a little carried away. :roll:

This has more to do with lawyers and getting sued than health reasons.

-Hal
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

I'm not going to suggest that asbestos isn't a problem but these abatement guys get a little carried away.

This has more to do with lawyers and getting sued than health reasons.
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You should check the facts. Asbestos is no laughing matter. I lost two family members due to asbestos. They worked in NYC during the 60's and 70's and were exposed to it. Both died off lung cancer caused by asbestos.

In my work I am very careful about working around it. I don't even like cutting asbestos shingles to bring a SE cable into a house, when you drill it you are creating fine particles that you may breath. I will not work in any buildings or houses where me or my crew would be exposed to in a risky situation. Its not worth the risk, the money may be good but I want to be alive when my grand kids grow up.

Steve
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

Asbestos is real serious business. As long as it is not disturbed everything is OK. Once you start cutting or anything to create dust it is in the air and you have a problem. Conventional dust masks do not filter it. I do not remember the micron size but it basically requires forced air.

It is not just a matter of lawyers suing once people are injured as with what generally happens with electrical stuff (unfortunately). You can be sued, imprisoned and such just for not properly removing it, and disposing of it, even though no one may even show symptoms of problems for 20-30 years.

It has been known to be used in drop in ceiling tiles, spray on plaster systems, old insulation, floor tiles, and places you can not imagine. If there is a question the only thing to do is have it tested and that will add to your cost.

Sorry to seem so negative. No I have not had anyone I know die from it, but have been directly exposed to it in the Navy. We had a Turbine Generator Fire and had to ripe insulation off to put the fire out. When your in a submarine you don't think to much about what may happen in 20 to 30 years, you get a little more concerned with making it through each day not ending up on the bottom of the ocean with no ability to come up. I have experienced no problems so far and am no longer on a to be watched list, but you never know.

This thing can be taken to a paranoia stand point and worry about every little thing. Your doing the work, you need to make the call. Just once it's in the air, it's not just you that any one else worried about.
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

I'm not minimizing the danger at all. What I'm saying is that health problems usually occur because of chronic or long term exposure. Asbestos contained in things like floor tiles or shingles will not become air borne unless they are abraded or otherwise caused to "dust". If you leave them alone they will be fine.

The abatement guys with the tenting and full suits were just following EPA and DEC regulations that applies to all asbestos removal even though in this case exposure was unlikely. Also, keep in mind long term exposure- these guys do this every day so it is important to eliminate any possibility of exposure on their part because it is cumulative. Similar regulations are in place for pesticides and other hazardous substances yet you are allowed to purchase and apply pesticides for your own use. So, I wouldn't consider the precautions these guys take to necessarily be an indication that there would be a problem for the person who comes in contact with that material casually or infrequently.

The mere discovery of something containing asbestos in a building causes property owners to panic. They don't want the possibility of legal action by building occupants even though it is the type where there is no danger if it is left alone. Better to get rid of it than be sued.

-Hal
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

Another place I have seen asbestos is on old heat ducts in homes, usually on the old gravity type furnaces.
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

Originally posted by hbiss:
What I'm saying is that health problems usually occur because of chronic or long term exposure.
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That's hard to believe when it only takes a miniscule amount lodged in the lung to cause damage. 1 exposure could be enough for mesothelioma or other issues. Those who are exposed often and those who disregard the "rules" are probably at a greater risk...combine those situations and your asking for trouble. Chronic or long term exposure may result in a higher percentage than the average man...but that is NOT to say it can't, won't or could never happen to the average uninformed individual.

Originally posted by hbiss:
Asbestos contained in things like floor tiles or shingles will not become air borne unless they are abraded or otherwise caused to "dust". If you leave them alone they will be fine.
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It's kind of hard to just leave a floor alone when your walking on it, maybe drilling through it, cutting a chase, etc.
Granted, airborne asbestos (friable) is the risk...but isn't it smarter to remove the risk before you create the risk...or at the very least protect yourself (and/or your employess)?

Originally posted by hbiss:
I'm not minimizing the danger at all.
Click to expand...
Your comments say otherwise.
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

So... If you have to cut into a popcorn textured ceiling to add a light or smoke detector, etc. -- what do you do to protect yourself?

Do you just wear a high quality dust mask? (there are some that work very well -- not the painter's paper dust masks -- but there are good masks available and they don't cost that much)
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

A high quality dust mask...no, a respirator with the proper filtering...like this one:
http://www.toolsplus.net/toolsplus/a-o95050.html ($36.00)

Here is some additional information:
http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/faq11.html
http://www.nwrenovation.com/5asbestos.html
http://pgappraisal.com/News?ID=43684 (turn your speakers OFF for this one...some chessy midi is looped)

I don't know what state your in (Texas?), but some states have requirements in regards to remodeling homes that contain asbestos.
But how do you know if a metaerial has asbestos?
Some labs will test a sample for $20...that is a small price to pay for safety.

The links above provide some methods for working with asbestos containing materials.

Many older homes were built with many asbestos containing materials - insulation, floor tiles, ceiling tiles, etc. As these homes get bought up by the younger generation, what's the first thing these buyer's do? Start renovating and fixing up. Like it or not, as an EC, you WILL be exposed to asbestos. Instead of putting your head in the sand or down playing the hazardous nature of this material, become educated...read about it...protect yourself AND your family.

These links list some of the building materials that are known to contain asbestos:
http://www.mesotheliomacenter.org/about/asbestos-materials.php
http://www.eia-usa.org/Technical/Asbestos/asbestos.html

You can't afford to not work safely.
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

I have spoken at length with a lung specialist about this issue of asbestos when I set about to rewire an old house for the same gentleman. His response to the issue was - long term exposure coupled with cronic cigarette smoking was the major 2 factors where there were fatal cases of asbestosis. He was not familiar with even one single case where smoking was not a co-partner in the disease.
 
Re: Asbestos in ceiling texture

What gets me is that the public is not notified of all the dangers with asbestos that lurk about, such as floor tiles and popcorn ceilings. These things should be common knowledge to everyone and they're not. Albeit everyone definitely knows that they'll get a big ticket if they don't wear their seatbelt, or go to jail if they don't pay their taxes on time. Everyone should be made aware of all the dangers of asbestos.
 
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