ASCO 940 ATS - Time to Replace?

[highriser]

30 year old ASCO 940 ATS serving 9-story res. condo building + two underground garage levels. Emergency power serves elevators, fire alarm system, security, and lighting (~275A). Building will be replacing elevator controllers, which may need pre-signal. Thinking now may be a good time to replace the ATS. Not sure what the useful life of the unit is - is it a good time, or does it have years left and still repairable?

 

[LarryFine]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm more of an if-it-ain't-broken kinda guy, especially if it can be easily adapted with new functions as needed.

 

[drktmplr12]

30 year old ASCO 940 ATS serving 9-story res. condo building + two underground garage levels. Emergency power serves elevators, fire alarm system, security, and lighting (~275A). Building will be replacing elevator controllers, which may need pre-signal. Thinking now may be a good time to replace the ATS. Not sure what the useful life of the unit is - is it a good time, or does it have years left and still repairable?

when was the last time it was inspected or preventative maintenance performed? Really hard to say without physically looking at the moving parts and connections. An ATS should last 20+ years, more if air-conditioned, and even more if properly maintained. The problem becomes replacement parts get difficult/expensive to source as the manufacturer moves support to newer products. You can expect a minimum of 1000 operations under load for an ATS.

 

[petersonra]

30 years is not a real long time for electrical equipment that is properly maintained and not subject to corrosion.

but, as the last poster mentioned, sometimes it is not about whether it is still functional or not that matters. if you can't get parts for it anymore, it is probably time to give serious consideration to replacing it.

 

[drktmplr12]

30 years is not a real long time for electrical equipment that is properly maintained and not subject to corrosion.

but, as the last poster mentioned, sometimes it is not about whether it is still functional or not that matters. if you can't get parts for it anymore, it is probably time to give serious consideration to replacing it.

to take this one step further, consider calling the MFR (local sales/maintenance rep. if possible) and ask them if they still support it and if yes, there are plans to sunset support. If they are 1-2 years away from ending support, they should be able to tell you. Inform the owner of the feedback and let them tell you not to replace it.

To answer your question directly, OP: The MFR can tell you if they will carry replacement parts for the foreseeable future.

ATS replacement is never fun.

 

[hillbilly1]

I’ve replaced quite a few in that time frame, usually the mechanicals wear out, and it will hang between position, or not fully close. Had only a small amount burn the contacts, and that usually was because of aforementioned mechanicals.

 

[highriser]

Thanks. The manufacturer offers a retrofit replacing the controller, adding contacts, but using existing switch, enclosure etc. But as for the switch, parts no longer available, so if there's a failure would need a new unit.

 

[hillbilly1]

Lowes replaces the entire switch, they get a new warranty, and it doesn’t cost much more than repairing the old switch, and not have a warranty.

 

[David Castor]

Some of the old ASCO switches have a very low short circuit withstand rating (10 kA). You might check the rating and make sure it's adequate for your situation if re-using. Unless I knew it had been maintained and exercised over the years, I wouldn't have much confidence in it operating reliably.

 

[Jraef]

Huh. I had no idea that ASCO had completely obsoleted the 940. That was such a standard for the industry for a lot of years. But then again, ASCO was bought by Schneider, so it's not atypical for a big international corporation like that to not want to carry the cost of maintaining info and support for legacy products when they buy a company.

 

[ATSman]

Yes it's true that the 940 series ATS Group 7 & 9 controllers have been around for quite a while and there still is a lot of them out there in service. Factors such as routine Preventive Maintenance, routine transfer testing, environment, indoor or outdoor (if outdoor NEMA 3R then is the space heater working ?), loading, etc have a lot to do with the service life of the switch. One factor that wasn't mentioned here in determining whether to repair or replace is the size (amperage) of the switch. What we find is the cost to repair is cheaper on units between 600A to 4000A rather than replacement. So based on what we have heard, you have 400A units and the cost to add the 31F pre-signal option to the Group 7 we recommend replacement with the Group 5, 7000 series ASCO's. Or.......... we can sell you a GE-Zenith ATS (now ABB) Lol!

On a side note, ASCO has always had the policy to sell you either a Group 7 controller upgrade (which would include the presignal contact signals) or a new switch, even before all the buyouts by other companies (B-K, Emerson/ Liebert (now Vertiv), Schneider.) This is true even if the failure was due to a faulty timer. On the older switches (906, etc) with relay logic, we have replaced bad timers, relays with the new solid state versions instead replacing the whole switch. But these were usually units above 400A that saved the customer a lot of $$$. ASCO reply was always we can't warrant it because they make more money their way. We have also designed and added presignal controls to the Grp 7 controllers even after ASCO stopped supplying this accessory ad-on panel. A lot of things to be considered here!

 

[highriser]

Is ABB ZTG series a good replacement option?

 

[highriser]

Yes it's true that the 940 series ATS Group 7 & 9 controllers have been around for quite a while and there still is a lot of them out there in service. Factors such as routine Preventive Maintenance, routine transfer testing, environment, indoor or outdoor (if outdoor NEMA 3R then is the space heater working ?), loading, etc have a lot to do with the service life of the switch. One factor that wasn't mentioned here in determining whether to repair or replace is the size (amperage) of the switch. What we find is the cost to repair is cheaper on units between 600A to 4000A rather than replacement. So based on what we have heard, you have 400A units and the cost to add the 31F pre-signal option to the Group 7 we recommend replacement with the Group 5, 7000 series ASCO's. Or.......... we can sell you a GE-Zenith ATS (now ABB) Lol!

On a side note, ASCO has always had the policy to sell you either a Group 7 controller upgrade (which would include the presignal contact signals) or a new switch, even before all the buyouts by other companies (B-K, Emerson/ Liebert (now Vertiv), Schneider.) This is true even if the failure was due to a faulty timer. On the older switches (906, etc) with relay logic, we have replaced bad timers, relays with the new solid state versions instead replacing the whole switch. But these were usually units above 400A that saved the customer a lot of $$$. ASCO reply was always we can't warrant it because they make more money their way. We have also designed and added presignal controls to the Grp 7 controllers even after ASCO stopped supplying this accessory ad-on panel. A lot of things to be considered here!

Looking at replacement options- there’s the 7000 you mention, but also 4000 and 300 which may be OK (unless retaining overlapping neutral is imperative). For ABB we’ve been pointed to the ZTG series. Any thoughts on these? One concern with ZTG is “TruOne” where controls and switch are integrated - seems this could make repair more difficult.