Ask...if you think it's wrong...from an inspector

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rudiseldb

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Fellow forum users, I'm a head of a large inspection program in the state of Oregon. If you believe the inspector is wrong please make them prove it by code or state laws. I have 8 inspectors and if they are wrong I will and have over ride them. You as tradesmen or persons are very smart, use it.


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rudiseldb said:
Fellow forum users, I'm a head of a large inspection program in the state of Oregon. If you believe the inspector is wrong please make them prove it by code or state laws. I have 8 inspectors and if they are wrong I will and have over ride them. You as tradesmen or persons are very smart, use it.


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Some inspectors are not so welcome to such a conversation and take it out on a contractor.
 
rudiseldb said:
Fellow forum users, I'm a head of a large inspection program in the state of Oregon. If you believe the inspector is wrong please make them prove it by code or state laws. I have 8 inspectors and if they are wrong I will and have over ride them. You as tradesmen or persons are very smart, use it.
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Although I agree this will only work if their supervisor insists on the inspectors to be open to the possibility that they do make mistakes. Some that I've dealt with over the years never make mistakes. :roll:
 
rudiseldb said:
Fellow forum users, I'm a head of a large inspection program in the state of Oregon. If you believe the inspector is wrong please make them prove it by code or state laws. I have 8 inspectors and if they are wrong I will and have over ride them. You as tradesmen or persons are very smart, use it.


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You can aid in that endeavor by requiring them to cite a code section (article number) in every rejection item. It forces them to read and know their code book. It gives the permit holder the information he needs to comply.
 
rudiseldb said:
Fellow forum users, I'm a head of a large inspection program in the state of Oregon. If you believe the inspector is wrong please make them prove it by code or state laws. I have 8 inspectors and if they are wrong I will and have over ride them. You as tradesmen or persons are very smart, use it.


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Thank you for being open to conversation. It would be good if all agencies felt the way you do. In my area I have found that most of them will listen to reason and they can admit when they are wrong. It goes both ways-- We as contractors have to admit when we are wrong also... Thanks again
 
infinity said:
Although I agree this will only work if their supervisor insists on the inspectors to be open to the possibility that they do make mistakes. Some that I've dealt with over the years never make mistakes. :roll:
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It is important that an inspector be well screened and carefully monitored. A confidential reporting system needs to be maintained by his department.
 
Speaking as an inspector....I certainly can and do make mistakes. I sometimes miss things that are non-compliant. But I also don't require anything that is not required by code.
If an electrical contractor, or any other contractor, thinks I am in error, I say, "Let's look at the code section together".
I've been around inspectors that have power-play issues, control issues, and unsatisfied ego issues. My position is that there is no place for those in the inspection process. Personal issues do not belong here.

My philosophy has always been, "If we can help each other ensure a safe and compliant installation, then we BOTH get through the process easier". :happyyes:
 
mgookin said:
You can aid in that endeavor by requiring them to cite a code section (article number) in every rejection item. It forces them to read and know their code book. It gives the permit holder the information he needs to comply.
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That is required in the state of Oregon


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construct said:
Speaking as an inspector....I certainly can and do make mistakes. I sometimes miss things that are non-compliant. But I also don't require anything that is not required by code.
If an electrical contractor, or any other contractor, thinks I am in error, I say, "Let's look at the code section together".
I've been around inspectors that have power-play issues, control issues, and unsatisfied ego issues. My position is that there is no place for those in the inspection process. Personal issues do not belong here.

My philosophy has always been, "If we can help each other ensure a safe and compliant installation, then we BOTH get through the process easier". :happyyes:
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Wish they were all like you.
 
jaggedben said:
Wish they were all like you.
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I am an inspector in Oregon and was an electrician for 20 years. In my experience an inspector is always happy to go over the code with a contractor. I have seen some with power issues, but they are usually brought on by being tired of arguments over tiny issues. Respect your inspector and he/she will respect you.
 
tsamples said:
I am an inspector in Oregon and was an electrician for 20 years. In my experience an inspector is always happy to go over the code with a contractor. I have seen some with power issues, but they are usually brought on by being tired of arguments over tiny issues. Respect your inspector and he/she will respect you.
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I'll seriously consider moving to Oregon. Some of my friends have. :cool:

There are some inspectors around here that I don't start conversations with anymore because they'll use it as an opportunity to push a more restrictive policy than what's in the NEC. Seriously, I've brought up issues where I didn't think they were interpreting the code correctly, or I mentioned that future versions of the NEC will explicitly allow something (because CA is 3 years behind) and the response has been 'Not only do we not agree with you, but we're going to pass a local amendment to the code when the next cycle comes around so that you still can't do that.' I feel I've been very respectful and reasonable when making my case.
 
Occasionally someone will question my call. I remember a day last month when inspecting a marina the electrician thought I was mistaken. No problem ! I simply walked across the water to get my Code book..........................................................
:D
 
augie47 said:
Occasionally someone will question my call. I remember a day last month when inspecting a marina the electrician thought I was mistaken. No problem ! I simply walked across the water to get my Code book..........................................................
:D
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Don't know how to swim, eh?! :lol:
 
In our required code upgrade classes, the last one I took was taught by the chief inspector for our city, they teach us exactly what to do if we think the inspector is trying to enforce non-existent rules. We get the phone numbers to the higher ups and everything. That teaching inspector was one of the most strict in the area and was called the 'Code Nazi' by the local contractors. But, what he enforced was law, nothing else, and if you disagreed with him he would refer you to his superiors.

I don't recall him ever being wrong.

What usually would happen would be that, when called on his ruling, he would get the code book out after he quoted the paragraph in question verbatim, and then proceed with a lengthy diatribe about the history of that particular paragraph, when it was first introduced, and so on, taking up lots of time. If you were in any kind of hurry, you soon realized it wasn't in the interest of time to try to argue the code with this guy.

Once he realized an EC wasn't trying to get away with stuff, he would work with them and offer some alternatives that would be to code but not so hard on the pocketbook. He was an EC for years before he became an inspector.

I think we have a pretty darn good system here in Michigan. If I have a code question, I can actually pick up the phone and call the state and speak to the head of the enforcement department in person, which I have done. Not to dispute an inspector's call, but to learn about the status of the AFCI ruling we are now enjoying here. Still, the guy at the top of the heap is only a phone call away to anyone here in Michigan.
 
wwhitney said:
And have they told you what local geographic, climatic, or topographic condition justifies that amendment? :)

Cheers, Wayne
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They don't need any justification; they can just legislate that pi = 3.00 and that's that. :D
 
wwhitney said:
And have they told you what local geographic, climatic, or topographic condition justifies that amendment? :)

Cheers, Wayne
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Apparently our jurisdiction has a surfeit of stupid and/or unscrupulous 'service people' who do 'wacky things without permits.' Admittedly this may be a local geographic condition. :lol: But of course the problem applies to a host of other rules, and for that matter the entire code in general. It didn't make a lot of logical sense to only apply it in this case.

I hope that guy isn't reading this.
 
ggunn said:
They don't need any justification; they can just legislate that pi = 3.00 and that's that. :D
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Not under California state law, they can't.
Well, actually they could legislate that pi = 3.00, but they could not make equally arbitrary changes to the building or electrical code.
That language restricting local amendments is built into the State code adoption.
 
dionysius said:
It is important that an inspector be well screened and carefully monitored. A confidential reporting system needs to be maintained by his department.
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I agree but I can tell you from experience they will remember the job usually. I had one of my guys say something to an owner and they said something to the contractor, it was about permit fees. Since I had new guys I brought it up generically to the whole group 4 weeks later and he came up to me later to explain what happened. They remember....


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Sierrasparky said:
Some inspectors are not so welcome to such a conversation and take it out on a contractor.
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Just remember that everyone has a boss, if the inspector is "paying you back", call his supervisor. If that doesn't work call the building official. If that doesn't work call the city manager....I think you get it. But, and this is a big but, choose your battles carefully. If it's something simple, fix it, if it's going to cost a bunch of money, fight it.

And always remember that inspectors are people too. I had one day where by the fifth inspection all I could say after hello was, "so tell me your excuse now and let's get it over with".:happysad:
 
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