ATS questions

[electrofelon]

I have done quite a few generators over the years, dozens probably, mostly generac or Kohler. All of the Kohler have been RXT series where the ATS is proprietary with the generator controller. So anyway I have a 150KW Kohler and a Thompson 600A ATS that I am getting close to commissioning. So these are just standard 2 wire start, which I have actually never actually worked with. So am I missing anything or do I just need 2 wires between the ATS and then gen? Are they typically any other wires between the two? Do I just run like 2 #12 THHN for this? Does the ATS just transfer based on where it senses an acceptable power source (subject to whatever timing and delays are programmed in the ATS)? I know I need 120v power for accessories which in this case is just a battery charger. Yes I do have all the paperwork but its like 437 pages and I havent been able to even find the basic info yet., just wanted to tough base on the forum here first.

Second question: The logistics of this job are tricky as it is an operational facility and it is super hard to get a shutdown. I need to temp power stuff on the load side of the ATS by feeding the generator side of the ATS with a temp feeder. I can manually transfer it over or just let it transfer when it senses power on the gen terminals, but anything else I should know?

I know I do need to change the voltage configuration of the ATS. It came from the factory set at 480, but this is 208.

 

[ActionDave]

Two wires out to the generator freaked me out the first time I hooked one up.
There should be some kind of connector to pull out that disables the ATS function so that you can use that little metal bar to switch from normal to emergency.

 

[ron]

Is this a 700,701 or 702 generator? That may impact whether it is 2 wires or not, as well as what NEC cycle are you on because in 2017 of the NEC, a 700 gen need to monitor the integrity of the start signal.

700.10(D)(3) Generator Control Wiring. Control conductors installed between the transfer equipment and the emergency generator shall be kept entirely independent of all other wiring and shall meet the conditions of 700.10(D)(1). The integrity of the generator control wiring shall be continuously monitored. Loss of integrity of the remote start circuit(s) shall initiate visual and audible annunciation of generator malfunction at the generator local and remote annunciator(s) and start the generator(s).

 

[electrofelon]

Two wires out to the generator freaked me out the first time I hooked one up.
There should be some kind of connector to pull out that disables the ATS function so that you can use that little metal bar to switch from normal to emergency.

Yeah with generac and their 5 wires (although that includes battery charging) and rxt with the modbus or whatever the hell it is, it seems like this is too simple .

Yeah that's exactly what I need is to disable the ATS function. I'll look for that feature.

 

[electrofelon]

Is this a 700,701 or 702 generator? That may impact whether it is 2 wires or not, as well as what NEC cycle are you on because in 2017 of the NEC, a 700 gen need to monitor the integrity of the start signal.

700.10(D)(3) Generator Control Wiring. Control conductors installed between the transfer equipment and the emergency generator shall be kept entirely independent of all other wiring and shall meet the conditions of 700.10(D)(1). The integrity of the generator control wiring shall be continuously monitored. Loss of integrity of the remote start circuit(s) shall initiate visual and audible annunciation of generator malfunction at the generator local and remote annunciator(s) and start the generator(s).

Thanks good to know, but this is a 702 setup

 

[ATSman]

I have done quite a few generators over the years, dozens probably, mostly generac or Kohler. All of the Kohler have been RXT series where the ATS is proprietary with the generator controller. So anyway I have a 150KW Kohler and a Thompson 600A ATS that I am getting close to commissioning. So these are just standard 2 wire start, which I have actually never actually worked with. So am I missing anything or do I just need 2 wires between the ATS and then gen? Are they typically any other wires between the two? Do I just run like 2 #12 THHN for this? Does the ATS just transfer based on where it senses an acceptable power source (subject to whatever timing and delays are programmed in the ATS)? I know I need 120v power for accessories which in this case is just a battery charger. Yes I do have all the paperwork but its like 437 pages and I havent been able to even find the basic info yet., just wanted to tough base on the forum here first.

Second question: The logistics of this job are tricky as it is an operational facility and it is super hard to get a shutdown. I need to temp power stuff on the load side of the ATS by feeding the generator side of the ATS with a temp feeder. I can manually transfer it over or just let it transfer when it senses power on the gen terminals, but anything else I should know?

I know I do need to change the voltage configuration of the ATS. It came from the factory set at 480, but this is 208.

The two conditions required for an ATS to transfer are: 1. There must be a loss of power on the Normal (preferred) source and 2. There must be proper voltage and frequency on the Emergency (alternate) source. This is accomplished by either operating the Test Switch or opening the Normal source breaker/ switch. If you want to isolate the ATS to hook up temp power to the ATS load you can disable the generator controls (and open the breaker on the generator) and open the Normal source breaker. This will isolate the ATS and prevent it from transferring to Emergency since it is designed not transfer to a dead bus.
Do you have the PDF or link to the 437 pages you can post here?

 

[electrofelon]

The two conditions required for an ATS to transfer are: 1. There must be a loss of power on the Normal (preferred) source and 2. There must be proper voltage and frequency on the Emergency (alternate) source. This is accomplished by either operating the Test Switch or opening the Normal source breaker/ switch. If you want to isolate the ATS to hook up temp power to the ATS load you can disable the generator controls (and open the breaker on the generator) and open the Normal source breaker. This will isolate the ATS and prevent it from transferring to Emergency since it is designed not transfer to a dead bus.
Do you have the PDF or link to the 437 pages you can post here?

ATS, I don't have a link to the manual. It's a Thompson TS970


Ok I guess it really is that simple. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

Got it temporarily energized today. I just unplugged the control wire harness and set it manually to generator. I have extra lugs on the generator side and can run my temp power connected to that while I get the normal side made up. Mounting the fingers for the 600A feeder now.

 

[garbo]

Retired from a large ( 550 bed ) hospital and was the only electrician that argued with so called experts on using a normally open unmonitored contact to start the generators some of which were 12 floors apart. Tired to explain that if one of these several hundred feet of wire was cut or broken that in an emergency generator would not start. They said that if they used a normally closed contact ( like every stop circuit in last hundred years have ) and wire was cut or broken generator might run for hours and waste fuel. Security made hourly checks off hours thru the two generator rooms. Rather waste a ton of fuel then some bodies life. We always had to notify security before starting any generator or fire pump then call them back when done running.