davedottcom
Senior Member
If a pvc pipe is Attached to a building for the entire run, can the pipe go below grade without having to follow the minimal cover requirements in 300.5?
Dave
Dave
Attached & Buried
- Thread starter davedottcom
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Attached & Buried
In my opinion, if the conduit is not visible because it is buried in the ground, then it must meet the burial depths of 300.5.
My reasoning is that since you cannot see the conduit, you don't know that it is there and could damage or pull it up. Mow you make an interesting point about the conduit running along a wall and veing attached to that wall. It is much less likely to be exposed to digging dangewrs and other normal hazards assoicated with buried raceways and cables.
I would have to see the actual installation to make a decision. Perhaps if the conduit is Sch 80 and smaller than 1", I wouldn;t see a problem not meeting the burial depth.
In my opinion, if the conduit is not visible because it is buried in the ground, then it must meet the burial depths of 300.5.
My reasoning is that since you cannot see the conduit, you don't know that it is there and could damage or pull it up. Mow you make an interesting point about the conduit running along a wall and veing attached to that wall. It is much less likely to be exposed to digging dangewrs and other normal hazards assoicated with buried raceways and cables.
I would have to see the actual installation to make a decision. Perhaps if the conduit is Sch 80 and smaller than 1", I wouldn;t see a problem not meeting the burial depth.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Attached & Buried
Dave, in my opinion, you are now in the realm of the call of the AHJ. It can be argued either way and the AHJ will have to make the call. If I were the AHJ, I would require that 300.5 be followed because of the reasons that Bryan stated.
Dave, in my opinion, you are now in the realm of the call of the AHJ. It can be argued either way and the AHJ will have to make the call. If I were the AHJ, I would require that 300.5 be followed because of the reasons that Bryan stated.
davedottcom
Senior Member
Re: Attached & Buried
The situation is a 1" pvc pipe from an Outdoor Meter/Main load center to a pool equipment panel on the same wall about 30' away.
The GC asked if the pipe can be run down the wall below grade so they don't see it. I was scratching my head thinking....hmmm...if I attach it to the building just above the footer, am I still burying it?
Dave
The situation is a 1" pvc pipe from an Outdoor Meter/Main load center to a pool equipment panel on the same wall about 30' away.
The GC asked if the pipe can be run down the wall below grade so they don't see it. I was scratching my head thinking....hmmm...if I attach it to the building just above the footer, am I still burying it?
Dave
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: Attached & Buried
Dave, I'm not sure where you're installing this but around here in the Northeast if the conduit were installed right above the footer it would be about 3' below the ground!
Dave, I'm not sure where you're installing this but around here in the Northeast if the conduit were installed right above the footer it would be about 3' below the ground!
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Attached & Buried
Along with infinity I would be down about 3' and would not even think of attaching it to the foundation I would just bury it. I think the chance of damage during back fill would be greater with the PVC attached to the foundation.
Here we would need expansion fittings at grade level for protection against frost heaves.
I also agree with Byran and Charlie, if it's out of site it must comply with Table 300.5.
[ May 15, 2005, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Along with infinity I would be down about 3' and would not even think of attaching it to the foundation I would just bury it. I think the chance of damage during back fill would be greater with the PVC attached to the foundation.
Here we would need expansion fittings at grade level for protection against frost heaves.
I also agree with Byran and Charlie, if it's out of site it must comply with Table 300.5.
[ May 15, 2005, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
davedottcom
Senior Member
Re: Attached & Buried
Sorry, this is a Florida house. I guess it's actually the side of the "slab". It's only about 6" below grade.
But, yea,I guess I agree. It should either be insight or buried according to 300.5.
Oh well, at least digging the trench will be easy...Florida soil is like digging in a sand box!
I was just wondering if there was any kind of exception if the pipe was attached to the structure. Guess not.
Thanks for nothing!
Dave
Sorry, this is a Florida house. I guess it's actually the side of the "slab". It's only about 6" below grade.
But, yea,I guess I agree. It should either be insight or buried according to 300.5.
Oh well, at least digging the trench will be easy...Florida soil is like digging in a sand box!
I was just wondering if there was any kind of exception if the pipe was attached to the structure. Guess not.
Thanks for nothing!
Dave
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Attached & Buried
Call the AHJ and ask them how they feel about it. It's always worth the shot.
[ May 15, 2005, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: paul ]
Call the AHJ and ask them how they feel about it. It's always worth the shot.
[ May 15, 2005, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: paul ]
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Attached & Buried
LOL...why yes....yes they do.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Attached & Buried
Huh. Interesting. I really don't see a problem with this. I think it would be safer than running the pipe just above the ground level.
Huh. Interesting. I really don't see a problem with this. I think it would be safer than running the pipe just above the ground level.
Re: Attached & Buried
If the conduit is underneath an interior slab the cover requirement is only ZERO inches. If underneath an exterior slab that extends 6 inches horizontally only 4 inches of vertical cover is needed.
One time USA Today drilled into a Cleveland Public Power 480 volts streetlighting conduit when instaling a vending machine. Sice the circuit was deenergized during the daytime there were no sparks to alert this crew. Next time that it was raining at night one of USA Today's customers ended up looking at the bottom side of the grass. Cleveland Public Power was held not liable because the streetlighting conduit underneath the public sidewalk was Code.
If the conduit is underneath an interior slab the cover requirement is only ZERO inches. If underneath an exterior slab that extends 6 inches horizontally only 4 inches of vertical cover is needed.
One time USA Today drilled into a Cleveland Public Power 480 volts streetlighting conduit when instaling a vending machine. Sice the circuit was deenergized during the daytime there were no sparks to alert this crew. Next time that it was raining at night one of USA Today's customers ended up looking at the bottom side of the grass. Cleveland Public Power was held not liable because the streetlighting conduit underneath the public sidewalk was Code.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Attached & Buried
Dave I have run into the same situation here also in Florida,Pool prewire not installed on rough in.Either due to not being informed at that time or simply rough in crew missed it.
Some truss deigns do not allow for a retro after drywall and have been asked by GC can we not tear up landscaping and run it along building in PVC.,but just below grade so as not to be seen.
I felt that would be the call of AHJ in the area.So I did as sugested here called and met him onsite,told him the situation.Simple reply if it is straped to the building it has to be above grade and visible,not below mulch grass etc. That way it can`t be damaged by a mower etc.
Gc opted to run it above grade and paint it brown to blend in with mulch ,another option is to pop a few soffit panels and run the nm in that area then exit down the wall in pvc.i have found the biggest problem is not the pool feed but the pool light switch leg,always seems that it is wanted to be in an area that you can`t get there from here without major drywall damage
Dave I have run into the same situation here also in Florida,Pool prewire not installed on rough in.Either due to not being informed at that time or simply rough in crew missed it.
Some truss deigns do not allow for a retro after drywall and have been asked by GC can we not tear up landscaping and run it along building in PVC.,but just below grade so as not to be seen.
I felt that would be the call of AHJ in the area.So I did as sugested here called and met him onsite,told him the situation.Simple reply if it is straped to the building it has to be above grade and visible,not below mulch grass etc. That way it can`t be damaged by a mower etc.
Gc opted to run it above grade and paint it brown to blend in with mulch
,another option is to pop a few soffit panels and run the nm in that area then exit down the wall in pvc.i have found the biggest problem is not the pool feed but the pool light switch leg,always seems that it is wanted to be in an area that you can`t get there from here without major drywall damage
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Attached & Buried
You can also run GRS or IMC and go with the 6" burial, but they don't much like chlorine.
You can also run GRS or IMC and go with the 6" burial, but they don't much like chlorine.
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