Auto CAD and Design

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Karl H

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San Diego,CA
I'm interrested in getting into more of the design aspect of the electrical trade. I'm currently enrolled in an engineering graphics and Auto CAD class.
The Engineering graphics is a prerequisite for the Auto CAD class.We are using the Auto Desk 2008 AutoCAD program.Well I spend alot of time drawing
objects like mechanical parts. I do undertstand I need to learn the tools of the program,but, it seems like this class is focused more on Auto CAD for Mechanical Engineering and I'm losing interrest REAL fast. I really want to focus my time on electrical specific design using AutoCAD. 2D models and eventually 3D models. I've seen Revit MEP. What do you guys use in electrical design work? Can you guys give me any advice,tips or tools of the trade? I'm here drawing hundreds of mechanical parts to scale.When I'm thinking to myself "all I want to do is One Lines". lol

Thanks for any or all advice
 
Karl H said:
I do undertstand I need to learn the tools of the program,but, it seems like this class is focused more on Auto CAD for Mechanical Engineering and I'm losing interrest REAL fast. I really want to focus my time on electrical specific design using AutoCAD. 2D models and eventually 3D models.
Thanks for any or all advice
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As you say, you are learning the tools of the drawing program. Most all electrical plans are 2D. Occasionally you may have to detail something in 3D
but not often. You really do not need much of AutoCad's power to complete a set of electrical plans.
 
Karl H said:
I'm interested in getting into more of the design aspect of the electrical trade. I'm currently enrolled in an engineering graphics and Auto CAD class.
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Congratulations
....Well I spend a lot of time drawing objects like mechanical parts. I do understand I need to learn the tools of the program, but, it seems like this class is focused more on Auto CAD for Mechanical Engineering and I'm losing interest REAL fast.
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There should not be a lack of interest, you need to push the envelope of learning - ACAD is a tough learning curve, I don't care if its in class or self taught. Learn as much as you can of all of the ACAD.
My opinion, mechanical drafting or learning of it shows a lot of aspects of things that another exact discipline just doesn't present. Learning mechanical aspect might just be that hang-over aspect referencing back to the drafting board days.
Learning drafting that happens to be on CAD is a two fold process, you got to learn all the things to operator the computer to get it to do what you need done, to scale to present all the information and then get it out of the computer, and your trying to learn another trade at the same time, drafting.
I really want to focus my time on electrical specific design using AutoCAD. 2D models and eventually 3D models.
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Don't show your distaste to the Teacher! There are major universities that don't even instruct EE of or even on CAD or even the NEC! As far as doing 3D anything be ready to move to a very large metro area, the use and application of 3D, while its a great thought it just not cost effective in a CAD production environment. Big Dollar contracts are usually involved, and generally they will only 3D in very complex multiple serves involved. And its just that one area and not all the complete systems. The only one doing 3D in drafting form is a large mechanical contractor here, yes they are complete but they have it locked into fabrication and production.
I've seen Revit MEP.
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I don't know that
What do you guys use in electrical design work?
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MicroStation, Onion Skin Paper, ACAD, in that order...
Can you guys give me any advice, tips or tools of the trade? I'm here drawing hundreds of mechanical parts to scale. When I'm thinking to myself "all I want to do is One Lines".
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First off and I searched here there not much here on ACAD - 11 entries not including other possible Cad packages. You best bet (MO) is to seek out other bulletin boards in respect to your new found vocation, there?s tons .
ACAD 102 might just be the same things, but new aspects of mechanical parts, assembly drawings, parts list, excel, Dbases, etc., and probably more of the same.
I wish you all the best, if your heading for an EE's office or a MEP office, you might seek out some small one man shops to see if you can get some drafting in and get paid for it to.

And remember Engineers think different!
 
My office uses Autocad 2004 (we have newer, but they're slower and don't have much that adds value for us). We are highly customized, with almost all of our standard symbols on toolbars, set so that we select an insertion point, select rotation, and we're done. Scaling is automatic. We've automated as much as possible.

The training you're in is probably a good thing. The more you know about drawing in CAD and the better you know Autocad the easier it will be.
 
bob said:
As you say, you are learning the tools of the drawing program. Most all electrical plans are 2D. Occasionally you may have to detail something in 3D
but not often. You really do not need much of AutoCad's power to complete a set of electrical plans.
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That's my point excatly BOB.This program is amazing.Do designers use AutoCAD 2008 or earlier,Revit MEP, etc? What should I focus on? Do I really need to learn how to model in 3D the space shuttle when as an aspiring electrical designer only want to do 2D electrical drawings.Now I have seen some really cool 3D electrical drawings in EC Mag.But, for now I'm just looking for some guidence from those that do this professionaly or anyone with experience using AutoCAD to design Electrical systems.:grin:
 
Karl
I use AutoCad LT. It won't do 3D drawings. If I need a detail in 3D I draw it
in Cad as I did with a pencil and paper. Perhaps you could find a program more suited to your needs.
 
I think ACAD is a wonderful program with probably more features than any one person will ever use. That's why its so hard, but it's also pretty easy in a lot of ways, and has who knows how much potential.

Myself, I only know a little bit. self taught with the help of about a hundred bucks worth of books.

It is my opinion that the mechanical stuff is much harder than electrical stuff, but if you hang in there, I don't think you will ever regret doing it.
 
BOB,Cadpoint,Hmspe,and Realolman.Thank you guys for responding. I'm listening to every word of advice you have to offer.At this point it seems as if I'm going to have to learn AutoCAD for electrical design on my own.As there are no colleges in my area that teach it.So once again any advice you guys have I'm all ears.
 
I have used AutoCAD since R14 and recently used Autocad MEP for coordination on some commercial projects. I would not rely on AutoCAD for design calculations. It is easier to do the calculations by hand or automate them with spreadsheets. I don't trust some of the programs unless you can actually see the calculations.
 
Hi Karl,

If your interest is in electrical controls design, there is an AutoCAD product called AutoCAD Electrical 2009. It is basically AutoCAD with an electrical controls design package integrated right into it. If you are a student, you should be able to get a free copy here:

http://students6.autodesk.com/?lbon=1

There is an on-line discussion group about the product here:

http://discussion.autodesk.com/index2.jspa?categoryID=13

There is a blog about the product here:

http://mfgcommunity.autodesk.com/blogs/blog/7/

Good luck!
Nate.
 
A question came up on electrical drawing software sometime ago. I recommended Visio Professional. Its a much easier program to use and is based on "shapes" that you drag and drop into the drawing.
Visio is now owned by Microsoft, good bad there. But I have gotten really good with it, and can turn out a one line really quick.
 
Karl H said:
That's my point excatly BOB.This program is amazing.Do designers use AutoCAD 2008 or earlier,Revit MEP, etc? What should I focus on? Do I really need to learn how to model in 3D the space shuttle when as an aspiring electrical designer only want to do 2D electrical drawings.Now I have seen some really cool 3D electrical drawings in EC Mag.But, for now I'm just looking for some guidence from those that do this professionaly or anyone with experience using AutoCAD to design Electrical systems.:grin:
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Do you have a specific direction you plan as far as employment? What I'd recommend for a designer in my office is different than if you were thinking a staff position at a company like Motorola, which is different from what I'd suggest for a free-lancer.

My office has never done anything 3D, but I get files from architects in Revit and ACA frequently that I have to be able to convert to 2D backgrounds. You also should look at what's in general use in your area (95%+ Autocd products in my area), and at what deliverables are. If you don't have to share electronic files with other companies it doesn't make much difference what you use for software. If you will be sharing files you need to use compatible software.
 
Let me toss in my two cents, if I may,

Not to be discouraging, but most MEP firms don't like to hire people from the field . My company (State of the Art Drafting) will only hire someone that has a journey license and then teach CAD to them. Send me an email and we will talk. And to be honest, most Master electricians know more than most engineers/designers. You will also make more in the field. There really is not much respect unless you have a PE. But to heck with them.

Now the good stuff.
First, the best program is called Autocad MEP. Revit MEP is good too but it is not ready for the MEP arena yet. Autocad MEP formally called ABS is for drawing one-lines and such. It will keep track of panel loads and do other necessary calculations for you. Honestly you really don't need to know anything about drawing in 3D. Google "autocad MEP torrent" and you will find it.

Ken
 
AutoCAD MEP 2008 here. Pretty much everything we do is plans, so not much need for 3D.
 
If you want to get into electrical design concentrate on the NEC and what is has to say. It is not intended as a design tool but it has a wealth of informatioon about cable ampacity, tap rules, motor requirements, etc. I use ACAD and have used Microstation. Any CAD package is just a tool much like a calculator. If you can go to school, get a BS degree and a PE. If not get an associates degree. Power engineering is hurting for experienced people. Any construction experience is a plus. Good Luck
 
nateholt said:
Hi Karl,

If your interest is in electrical controls design, there is an AutoCAD product called AutoCAD Electrical 2009. It is basically AutoCAD with an electrical controls design package integrated right into it. If you are a student, you should be able to get a free copy here:

http://students6.autodesk.com/?lbon=1

There is an on-line discussion group about the product here:

http://discussion.autodesk.com/index2.jspa?categoryID=13

There is a blog about the product here:

http://mfgcommunity.autodesk.com/blogs/blog/7/

Good luck!
Nate.
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Revised info, you don't have to be a student to get a 30 day full eval copy (not crippled, full version). AutoCAD is not required, a copy of AutoCAD 2009 comes with the product here:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/mform?siteID=123112&id=8444241
Infomercial here:
http://download.autodesk.com/us/autocadelectrical/adm717_build_2006-07-21a/index.html

Full disclosure - this company is my employer.
Good luck,
Nate.
 
First I'd like to thank everyone for responding to my post. I think I might need to tell you guys more about myself. I have 22 years in the trade mainly commercial/Industrial. I'm the head foreman for a commercial\industrial electrical company.That specialize in the electrical needs of small and large Pharmaceutical companies. The owner of my company has hounded me for years to come into the office as a designer,estimator,and all around tech support. I am well versed in the NEC,theory,elect. calcs,etc. Plus,the "Real-world" apps. I do not have any experience designing electrical systems on a computer working with Architectural backgrounds.Now paper and pen,napkins,old card board ,lines in the sand,Yes.:grin: I don't personaly know any engineers or designers to show me how they design on a comp using AutoCAD.So that's why I'm asking what programs do you guys use so that hopefully that will help me narrow down what exactly should I focus my time and attention to. In my AutoCAD 2008 class I'm realizing that for my needs or what I think my needs are. I'm learning how to draw the Mona Lisa when all I need to learn is how to draw stick figures. I am currently checking out all of the programs you guys have suggested. The AutoCAD MEP is looking so far as the program I "Think" electrical designers would use.But, then again I don't know anything. lol Once again I would like to thank you guys for your time and sugestions. If any of you guys have anymore advice I am listening,ears perked up,eyes focused on the teachers.:smile:
 
AutoCAD LT 2008

AutoCAD LT 2008

I took a class at Martinez adult education in AutoCAD 2007. It was ten weeks long, we learned a lot. I just bought 2008LT the full commercial version from Comp USA going out of business sale $899 minus 30% then another 10% off. Think it was $584 out the door.

I love the program, especially the polar tracking. Like as mentioned in a former post the learning curve is flat, then once you get it, it all starts to work for you.

I am trying to enroll in Cal State Hayward (East Bay) for their HVAC Tech Cert course through vocational rehab (disabled carpenter).

Like you said AutoCAD is great, but you need a discipline to apply it in. Hang in there, do the drawings and start looking around for a electrical specific library. I found a site with a lot of content that you might like. It uses national cad standards.

You will it find it at: A Veterans Administration web site. http://www.va.gov/facmgt/standard/details.asp
Best site I have ever seen for Standard details. Mod Note: Politcal comment removed.
Good Luck with your studies.
dwcaveney
 
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